Hi Hat trouble

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swoon

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Hey hey,

Recently I bought a Pearl Export Drum from a colleague who had it collecting dust in his attic.

I did not play the drums but I'm making good progress.

However, I tried to record the hi hat for the first time yesterday.
And I don't seem to be able to get a decent sound from it.

I tried 2 mics on it. (SM 57 and a Rode NT3, I also tried a larger daiphragm condensor on it.) But it seems it always ends up sounding really thick and muddy. As where I would like it to be somewhat clearer. I played around with the EQ buth I can't seem to get a clear smooth sound out of it.

I'm not very experienced with recording drum kits.

Any suggestions here?

Appart from these mics I also have a drum mic kit available. (Seems to be unbranded though) and 2 SkyTronic overhead mics.

I record on 2 VSR 880's through a DM24 from Tascam. (So EQ and Compression/Gating will be done on the Tascam.)

Oh.. don't know if it matters, but my drum sticks are really in bad shape. I should get a new pair. Could this be a part of my problem. (I think the HH sounds rather OK when I just listen to while playing.)

Thanks.
 
Remember, the sound of a high hat tends to be emitted laterally more than vertically. Place the mic pointing at it sideways, and see if that makes a difference.-Richie
 
Why are you micing the highhat? Is it for an overdub? Usually you get more than enough HH in the overhead mics and it's rarely solo miced but some people do it.

If you want a realistic HH sound that way it sounds in a usual drum micing setup then mic it like you are using an OH mic. Usually that would be a condensor several feet above the HH. Move the mic around the room until you find a good sound and and don't be surprised if you end up 5-10ft away.
 
yeah...

well i know alot of engineers that record hi-hats on drums. I normally do, but i hear what your saying just taking your overheads higher. Not a bad idea at all, but you can generally "control" the sound more if you do tighter miking, i think that is why some people like to do it. I like it so i can mess with the panning of it, and i can make it more drastic or less if i desire...
 
I don't mean to make you feel stupid, but this could be a point that is being overlooked...
How are you striking the hi-hat cymbals?
With the shoulder of the stick on the edges of the cymbals, or the tip on the top of the cymbals?

That can affect the sound as well.
 
I rarely use highhat tracks in my mixes. I always mic it though to make the drummer feel like he's getting his money's worth. It's almost always fine in the overheads. Your Mileage may vary. . . . . . in the wrong direction.
 
the cymbals, your technique and choice of sticks all play a role here, as well as mic choice and placement. some cymbals (especially entry level series and those designed for live hard rock), tend to be harsh and abrasive when recorded, doubly so when recorded with cheaper mics with a high-end boost. some cymbals tend to take to recording better than others. how you're playing them and with which part of the sticks will make a big difference in sound, too.

see, the trick is to get the kit and cymbals sounding fantastic in the room to begin with. that's a combination of good gear, a good room, proper tuning techniques and proper playing technique. if you don't have that, you won't get good drum sounds. you've gotta build your sonic house from the bottom up--once you have the drums and cymbals sounding great in the room, THEN move onto mic choice and placement. drums are one of the hardest things to record well, especially hand-me-down type kits in a basement or garage. it's frustration in a box.

i sometimes, but rarely, mic the hi hats. if i do mic em, i usually don't need to use the track. hihat's one of those things i usually find myself needing less of, actually.


good luck!
wade
 
As alluded to - Id first ensure you have quality cymbals because a bad hihat will usually sound bad thru any mic
 
Due the the characateristics of the hi hat sound, generally speaking, I wouldn't sweat it too much. Once all the other tracks are added, the overtones will not be as apperant. You mainly hear the initial attack if you mix it properly.

I'm not saying not to try different things to achieve a better sound, but you will have a better idea once you hear it in the context of the mix.

In the short time I have been tinkering, I find that you could piss around for hours and never get what you want because you may not have the proper equipment, room,etc. to achieve what you want so don't let it interfere with your forward motion,i.e. getting your original down and completed.

Speaking as an amateur, of course.
 
swoon said:
I played around with the EQ buth I can't seem to get a clear smooth sound out of it.
Click to expand...
You shouldn't be playing with Eq, start playing with the mic placement, which is waayy much important.
Btw, you'll probably need a condencer mic, no sm57 and make shure you avoid phase annulation. Less mics is better, unless you really need them and you know perfectly how to set them up.

greetz
 
I almost always mic hi hats when I record. I may not always use them, but sometimes you need the extra control and you can usually get a more focused pan. If changing hi-hats is not an option I would try to find a sd condenser and play with mic placement. Note that the closer to the center of the hats you mic, the heavier (chunkier) the sound will be, and the farther out you go the thinner, more sizzly the sound will tend to be. As Richie said the sound moves mainly laterally from between the hats so placing the mic about 3" above and 2"outside the hats pointed at the space between them may be a good place to start, and then adjust from there. (but watch for phase and bleed from the snare)

Also when mixing, I typically will start with the kick and snare both panned center, then bring up the hi hats panned about 40% right or left until you hear then seperate from the kick and snare but are just as present as the snare. You may also roll-off anything under about 150hz on the hats so you don't muddy up the overall kit with low end bleed.

Hope something in there helps.
 
If you HAVE TO mic a hat, orient the mic the same as your snare mic, that is: I place my SM57 on snare with cord end pointing at the hi hat so as to reject any hat bleeding to snare, if you point the hat mic outside above the hat pointing in line to the snare, phase correlation works in your favor, cancels thump even when pedalling. 45 degrees and 6 inches away does it for me when I am requested to mic a hat, because I never do for myself, OH mics take care of it, and snare and 1st rack bleed enough hat too.
Jason
 
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