Hi-end DJ mixer?

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barefoot

barefoot

barefootsound.com
I'm trying to design a very high end "minimalist" scratch performance mixer. I want to eliminate as many bells and whistles as possible and go for the absolute highest quality sound.

Here is the list of controls:

Cannel A fader
Cannel B fader
Cross fader
Master level
A/B Cue Select
Cue level

That's it.

DJ's, are there any other controls or features you absolutely could not live without?

Thanks!
barefoot
 
You should want to add a GAIN on channel A and on channel B.

You might want to add BASS AND TREBLE on both channels A and B.

There are a LOT of reasons why you should consider these 2 options. :)

Also...

Your A/B cue select should be a slider and not a toggle switch or a knob.

There's a reason for that also.

peace... :D

spin
 
mm this might seem like a no brainer coz you mainly scratch on vinly but coz of the new pioneer cdj1000 maybe a phono-line switch?

& maybe a cross fader curve "adjuster" for want of a better word lol
or is that one too many bells & whistles? :)
 
Hey try the Vestex PMC 06a pro. It's basic and has really good hi-end features.

It gives you:

2 phone / 2 line inputs
a really smooth x-fader w/ fader adjustments
Output gains on both channels
3 band eq w/ Bass, mid, treble
2 headphone outs
hampster swithch
X-fader for headphon monitoring between channels 1&2
It's a slim bodied mixer that fits between two 1200's nicely
Great for battling and very hi quality

Just my opinion, check it out

http://www.audioclimax.com/gensym-78.html
 
Thanks for the input!

Spin,

Other than for just tweaking the sound quality, can you explain to me a little more how you use the tone controls to "perform"?

I know some Dj's do things like cut the bass from one channel and the highs from the other, then mix them. Are there other commonly used techniques?

I don't want to go into details, because it may be patentable, but I think I might have come up with a very powerful way of implementing tone controls. It would allow very precise yet super fast adjustments for isolating frequency ranges from each channel. Kind of like combining bass/mid/treb controls in one knob, but with even more control and also more hi-fi.

barefoot
 
Oh yeah. How is the Hampster switch used? Do a lot of DJ's use it?

barefoot
 
Okay, barefoot. I'll try to give you a short answer. :D

Other than for just tweaking the sound quality, can you explain to me a little more how you use the tone controls to "perform"?
The only dj's that would probably use a "minimalistic" mixer would be a turnbtablist and/or a newbies.
I've noticed that when I'm in Paris (@ the DMC shop) or London (@Deal Real or Mr. Bongos) the scratch dj's use the tone controls as an "effect" while they are doing "studder" scratches. They bring the low's or hi's in and out as they are doing the "studder" scratch.
I would use the controls for that reason AND I would use it when I am cutting a phrase from a record (take out the "lows" and turn up the hi's). That would help you to hear the vocals, but cut out the kick, snare, and music of the passage I was cutting.

You would need to have a GAIN control also (for a similar reason).
You have to remember that some of turntablist scratch with the up and down channels.
They also "trick" with one NEW record (on one side) and one OLD record (on the other side).
There are few other reasons, but I might start sounding somewhat redundant. :)

I know some Dj's do things like cut the bass from one channel and the highs from the other, then mix them.
On one hand, the experienced club dj would use this technique to control the crowd and to perfectly blend the two records, while controling the start time in which the crowd hears the new record blending in with the record you are mixing out.
Again, I say, an experienced club dj would not be spinning with a mixer that does not have EQ's on all channels and that doesn't have GAIN's on all channels either. (Not to say that the exp. dj couldn't use a "bare bones" mixer, they probably wouldn't unless they had to use a "bare bones" mixer. But, then I'm sure that a specific "mixer" would be named and included in their contract rider).
On the other hand, an inexperienced dj would take all the bass out of BOTH records when blending, to mask the fact that their blend is not "tight" (perfectly on beat or melody). In other words "cheating" (but... sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do...). :)

Oh yeah. How is the Hampster switch used? Do a lot of DJ's use it?
Yes, a lot of the scratch dj's use this feature. In essence, this is what it does... It reverses the crossfader. Instead of TT1 being on the LEFT and TT2 being on the RIGHT, you flip the switch or knob, and VOILA, the TT1 is on the RIGHT and TT2 is on the LEFT.
It is used for scatching. The sound of the scratch changes because of the way you click the fader (crossfader).
Say for instance, you are not ambidextrous. And you are "cutting" with your LEFT (left hand on record, right hand on the fader). Now the normal way to do a complex scratch (flare or crab) would be to use your thumb as the "spring" (to click/push the fader to the right, away), while you use 2 to 4 of your fingers to tap the fader toward the center.
Now, with the HAMSTER switch engaged you would use your thumb (as the "spring") to push the fader away from the left side toward the middle, while you use 2 to 4 of your fingers to click/push the fader back toward the LEFT side. ;) (hope you understood that, if not I'll look for a link to a turntablist site, so you can hear what I am saying).

Alright, sorry about the long post. I tried not to make it too long.

:D

peace...

spin
 
Spin,

This is great stuff! Thanks!

It's also good news from the perspective of my concept, especially my "barefoot tone" control. From what you describe I think I'm on the right track.

At first I definitely need to gear things towards professional turntablists. This box is going to be quite expensive and I think the sound quality and my new type of tone control will really set it apart. The cool thing is, there's nothing about my design which couldn't eventually be incorporated into more affordable lower-fi units.

Ok, now I'm off to find the cash and the time to build it. Q-Bert lives just a stones throw away from me. After I build it, maybe I'll try to contact him and ask him to give it a spin (good luck). It cant hurt to try.

Thanks again!
barefoot
 
I met Q-Bert a couple of times before. He is a good guy. I was doing a show out in Los Angeles for Fat Beats and Urb Magazine. We were all doing routines Q-Bert, Short-Cut, Mix Master Mike, Babu, Melo-D, Rhettmatic, Joe Sinista, Rob Swift, Roc Raida, and myself :).
It's a long story, that I'll share with you all later on...but to put it mildly, I was NERVOUS AS HELL!!!
After my set those guys bought me a sh*tload of drinks. They are all great.

Good luck on the mixer creation.

peace...

spin

p.s. If you need additional help or info... e-mail me, then give me a call.
 
Couldn't live without:
Volume Meter... Why? Cause some tracks are recorded at stupid levels.. (below line).. I have a few tracks have to add a 3-6 db to get it up there with the rest, it's kind of an anticlimax for the crowd when it sounds like you're suddently turning down the music... So.. gain on each channel and a volume meter... It's nice to be able to monitor.. also when you're making epic mixes as I am...

Other:
Cue to Post Mix fader.. Why? cause when you're playing tricks with the eq, it's nice to hear the crossfader action, which you don't when you're on cue...

And another thing... y not simply a little button on each channel so you can select and deselect both channels as you please? Perhaps that was what you meant by A/B Cue Select..?

As for EQ... I'd never buy a mixer without both a High, mid and low. Cause sometimes you only wanna boost / cut the deep end of the beat and not the entire Bassdrum....

As for outputs: Make two! and put a gain control on each! Just in case you suddently get a huge gig...
 
Chriss said:
As for EQ... I'd never buy a mixer without both a High, mid and low. Cause sometimes you only wanna boost / cut the deep end of the beat and not the entire Bassdrum....

yep, and in addition most of the vinyls have to be equalized while mixing because otherwise the crowd can hear the tonal differences of the tracks. If you play a vinyl 100 times it simply lacks of high's while others are recorded with to much bass...
 
Cue to Post Mix fader.. Why? cause when you're playing tricks with the eq, it's nice to hear the crossfader action, which you don't when you're on cue...
I didn't know that... :eek:

As for EQ... Cause sometimes you only wanna boost / cut the deep end of the beat and not the entire Bassdrum....
I agree totally. :)

Volume Meter... Why? Cause some tracks are recorded at stupid levels.. (below line).. I have a few tracks have to add a 3-6 db to get it up there with the rest, it's kind of an anticlimax for the crowd when it sounds like you're suddently turning down the music... So.. gain on each channel and a volume meter... It's nice to be able to monitor...
Again...total agreeance (sp?) :)

And another thing... y not simply a little button on each channel so you can select and deselect both channels as you please? Perhaps that was what you meant by A/B Cue Select..?
There are a few reasons why I don't like the button cues. Normally it wouldn't make a difference (button, knob, or fader), but...
When you are performing a hip-hop routine in a club and you are using the que to help you with "back tracking", then you won't have time to rewind the record, press the cue button, unpress the other cue button, rewind the other record, press the cue button, unpress the other cue button, etc...
It would be easier to just slap the cue fader to the right or to the left as you go from turntable to turntable.
Plus, if you are doing a party without a monitor you'll need to be able to adjust the cue mixture of the opposing turntable (to make sure your start time is accurate, because of the delay due to the echos and reflections of the room).

yep, and in addition most of the vinyls have to be equalized while mixing because otherwise the crowd can hear the tonal differences of the tracks. If you play a vinyl 100 times it simply lacks of high's while others are recorded with to much bass...
Once again in complete congruence wit' cha'..... :)

peace...

spin
 
SPINSTERWUN said:
There are a few reasons why I don't like the button cues. Normally it wouldn't make a difference (button, knob, or fader), but...
When you are performing a hip-hop routine in a club and you are using the que to help you with "back tracking", then you won't have time to rewind the record, press the cue button, unpress the other cue button, rewind the other record, press the cue button, unpress the other cue button, etc...
It would be easier to just slap the cue fader to the right or to the left as you go from turntable to turntable.
Plus, if you are doing a party without a monitor you'll need to be able to adjust the cue mixture of the opposing turntable (to make sure your start time is accurate, because of the delay due to the echos and reflections of the room).


'aight.. didn't know that, hehe.. I guess spinning progressive is quite different, more time on your hands but prolly a bit more worrying about sync'ing the fadein. (I do up to 4 minutes of fadein, so you spend most of your time with your hand on the Pitch adj.)
I can see what you mean about adjusting the cue levels, especially when you're fiddleing with the eq.. sometimes you can't hear the opposing track at all and you just have to hope it won't be too messy when you throw in the bass again.. highats help, but they're not allways present.

Note by the way that you should never confuse Post Mix with Postmix, 'aight? Unless you want your mixer to make coca cola for you... hehe
 
(I do up to 4 minutes of fadein, so you spend most of your time with your hand on the Pitch adj.)
I also like to do the "extended" 3 and 4 minute blends when spinning "house" music (it shows the crowd or people around you that you have an high skill level).
Plus, most of these "new" dj's can't even mix (blend) properly. :)

peace...

spin
 
Notice the new compilation from Hooj Choons.. "Digitally Mixed..." Grrr.. got me a little pissed. It's alot like that these days. People call themselves DJ's but they can't even beatmatch properly.
 
Chriss said:
People call themselves DJ's but they can't even beatmatch properly.
Well, I've been playing around with Acid and some other applications on the computer. I don't really know what to call what I'm doing - maybe something like a "Hard Disc Jockey".

The computer takes care of the bpm's and all I do is the initial sync. I certainly don't have the same kinds of skills as a DJ, but I feel like I'm developing my own thing. Not having to worry about matching beats, plus the many other powerful things software can do, allows me a whole new kind of freedom to tweak and layer mixes. I guess I'm hovering somewhere between a DJ and an electronica composer.

Still, none of the software is really designed for this "on the fly composing" I'm trying to perfect. So I try and adapt things. Hopefully I'll get good and come up with something I can be really proud of. But don't worry, I wont call myself a DJ. ;)

barefoot
 
hehehe.. yes, that's cool.. as long as long as you don't call yourself a dj :D
I wouldn't ever dream of going CD or mp3 ... ever... spinning with vinyl is the best thing that has ever happened to me.
 
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