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Beezoboy
Home Recording Guru
Making it sticky I think would help relieve some of the same questions being asked around here.
Pleez?
Beezoboy
Pleez?
Beezoboy
R
Recording Engineer
Moderator
You or I or someone would need to talk to Dragon about that... I have no capabilities for doing such a thing... It's a great idear in my opinion though!
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Harvey Gerst
New member
Can you at least edit it, removing all the "bumps", and "great job" stuff?
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Beezoboy
Home Recording Guru
Awesome. I just get sick of reading the same questions over and over again. Also it would be nice if thats the first thing you see when you get to the mic forum. Very interesting read for someone of any level of proficiency.
The Computer Recording forum has a sticky FAQ thread now, so maybe we could inquire as to how that one got started. Is Slackmaster 2k in the house??
Another sticky we could start could be a MICROPHONE ENCLYCLOPEDIA.
We could start with a few reference microphones (LD & SD condenser, SD & LD dynamic, OMNI, etc)and compare other microphones from the reference say using a Mackie XDR pre as the standard. I know this is subjective and would get huge and debated, but eventually everyone will have to agree that a 414 is brighter than a U87 and that an SM57 *can* sound good on almost anything. All we would need is the ability to update the first post (for reference purposes) in the thread when ever a new mic gets discussed and maybe tell what page it is on.
This way we can say *nicely* to go read the Mic Encyclopedia when someone asks if a 58 is a 57 with a ball and does it sound different for the 107th time.
I'll be happy to start on the concepts (reference mics) if you are ok with trying it. After you reply to this I'll do a poll and see what people think, or maybe one of you could.
Beezoboy
The Computer Recording forum has a sticky FAQ thread now, so maybe we could inquire as to how that one got started. Is Slackmaster 2k in the house??
Another sticky we could start could be a MICROPHONE ENCLYCLOPEDIA.
We could start with a few reference microphones (LD & SD condenser, SD & LD dynamic, OMNI, etc)and compare other microphones from the reference say using a Mackie XDR pre as the standard. I know this is subjective and would get huge and debated, but eventually everyone will have to agree that a 414 is brighter than a U87 and that an SM57 *can* sound good on almost anything. All we would need is the ability to update the first post (for reference purposes) in the thread when ever a new mic gets discussed and maybe tell what page it is on.
This way we can say *nicely* to go read the Mic Encyclopedia when someone asks if a 58 is a 57 with a ball and does it sound different for the 107th time.
I'll be happy to start on the concepts (reference mics) if you are ok with trying it. After you reply to this I'll do a poll and see what people think, or maybe one of you could.
Beezoboy
Gidge
Lapdance Test Dummy
how about a sticky with a link to the condensed PDF file?....
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Harvey Gerst
New member
The only problem with that is the big thread is a living ongoing thread, and there are lotsa postings I've made to other threads that I'd like to see included in the big thread as well.
R
Recording Engineer
Moderator
Harvey Gerst said:
Sounds like a plan... Anyone rebut this, say "I". Otherwise, I'll get to work on it!
R
Recording Engineer
Moderator
Beezoboy said:
Sounds more like a FAQ page... I'm kinda following you though... May be WAY too subjective though!
Slackmaster2K
Gone
You weston, as a moderator you can make any thread in your forum sticky...use stick/unstick down in the admin options for the thread.
Slackmaster 2000
Slackmaster 2000
R
Recording Engineer
Moderator
Hey, now wait a minute!
Anyone think it'd be a cool idea to record a BUNCH of different "common" mics (currently available mics people can buy new as well as classics no longer available new), all through the same mediocore gear... Not "technical" really at all, just plug it in and record! You know, homerecording.com style! How most people here would do it at their home!
Would anyone want to try and get together to do this? To somehow get a BUNCH of "common" mics into place at the same time? Hell, I'll host it at my place!
Any thoughts on gear?
Preamp, mic cable, line cable, A/D, recorder...
I'll start:
Maybe through a Mackie XDR preamp (using the Ch. Insert output), interfaced with Mogami W2549 or W2534 (for both mic and line cable), and recorded at 16-bit, 44.1k with something like my LynxOne soundcard (and not clocked to any external source) or more common?
Thoughts on the source and room?
Vocals? Male or female or both? Acoustic guitar? The guitar? Maybe just at the 12th fret?
Just standard carpeted room? A more controlled room?
Anyway, obviously, this wouldn't tell you much of anything, it'd just be a reference of what you can might expect to somewhat hear from these mics at YOUR home and can maybe help someone eliminate some of the MANY options when looking for their next purchase!
Thoughts? Interests? Waste of time and effort? Bad idea all together?
Anyone think it'd be a cool idea to record a BUNCH of different "common" mics (currently available mics people can buy new as well as classics no longer available new), all through the same mediocore gear... Not "technical" really at all, just plug it in and record! You know, homerecording.com style! How most people here would do it at their home!
Would anyone want to try and get together to do this? To somehow get a BUNCH of "common" mics into place at the same time? Hell, I'll host it at my place!
Any thoughts on gear?
Preamp, mic cable, line cable, A/D, recorder...
I'll start:
Maybe through a Mackie XDR preamp (using the Ch. Insert output), interfaced with Mogami W2549 or W2534 (for both mic and line cable), and recorded at 16-bit, 44.1k with something like my LynxOne soundcard (and not clocked to any external source) or more common?
Thoughts on the source and room?
Vocals? Male or female or both? Acoustic guitar? The guitar? Maybe just at the 12th fret?
Just standard carpeted room? A more controlled room?
Anyway, obviously, this wouldn't tell you much of anything, it'd just be a reference of what you can might expect to somewhat hear from these mics at YOUR home and can maybe help someone eliminate some of the MANY options when looking for their next purchase!
Thoughts? Interests? Waste of time and effort? Bad idea all together?
R
Recording Engineer
Moderator
Consider this "moderator" an idiot yall... Tells ya how often I find it appropriate and necessary to use any admininstrator options! Thank You Slack! Truthfully, I find this group to be self-moderated! I just help-out with requested duties and occasional non-requested duties.
D
darwin
New member
I would like a mic encyclopedia that lists a large number of mics and their features. I would like this listed in a non-subjective manner. The things I would like to see for each mic are its pickup pattern(s), tube/solid state, LD/SD condenser etc., frequency roll off options, has it's own power supply, and maybe some other non-subjective information.
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Harvey Gerst
New member
Is it possible to change the URL in the second post (in the big thread) from:
http://www.recaudio.pro.net
to:
http://www.phys.tue.nl/people/etimmerman/RecordingFAQ.html ?
The first link is no longer valid.
http://www.recaudio.pro.net
to:
http://www.phys.tue.nl/people/etimmerman/RecordingFAQ.html ?
The first link is no longer valid.
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Beezoboy
Home Recording Guru
Yeah...I think the mic encyclopedia or FAQ or whatever would be great! I am really not sure about the recording concept as much as just explaining the differences as cmpared to the reference mic.
Like when Harvey compared those MXL mics he more or less used his TLM103 as the reference (correct me if I am wrong). He said how the V67 compared to it. Also the V77 as I recall.
This way you could make comparisons on the characteristics so people can't argue as easily. Unfortunately some more experienced people will hear some things in recordings other people can't hear. Not to mention that, the mic might have been particularly good/bad for THAT given source. Like an ADK mic might sound great on a nice Martin acoustic whereas the U87 sounded mediocre. That somewhat gives the wrong impression, unless you have that same Martin.
So for instance, if a TLM103 were the reference mic then you could say that the V67 was like the TLM103 but with slightly muddy lows or something and is less bright. That is something that people would have a hard time arguing if it is true. Also when someone doesn't know what mic to use for something, they can look to what the reference mics record well, see if they have something similar, and voila they know what mic to use without asking a question that already has been covered 8000 times.
Neither system is perfect but when audio samples are involved it gets even more subjective due to signal chain.
But as far as a big mic shootout, it would be fun but tough to put togther. Where do you live Recording Engineer?
Beez
Like when Harvey compared those MXL mics he more or less used his TLM103 as the reference (correct me if I am wrong). He said how the V67 compared to it. Also the V77 as I recall.
This way you could make comparisons on the characteristics so people can't argue as easily. Unfortunately some more experienced people will hear some things in recordings other people can't hear. Not to mention that, the mic might have been particularly good/bad for THAT given source. Like an ADK mic might sound great on a nice Martin acoustic whereas the U87 sounded mediocre. That somewhat gives the wrong impression, unless you have that same Martin.
So for instance, if a TLM103 were the reference mic then you could say that the V67 was like the TLM103 but with slightly muddy lows or something and is less bright. That is something that people would have a hard time arguing if it is true. Also when someone doesn't know what mic to use for something, they can look to what the reference mics record well, see if they have something similar, and voila they know what mic to use without asking a question that already has been covered 8000 times.
Neither system is perfect but when audio samples are involved it gets even more subjective due to signal chain.
But as far as a big mic shootout, it would be fun but tough to put togther. Where do you live Recording Engineer?
Beez
D
DJL
Self Banned
IMO, the BIG THREAD is the best mic thread on the entire internet, and in thanks to Harvey, the thread should have whatever Harvey wants added to it or deleted from it.
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Beezoboy
Home Recording Guru
We're not talking about changing Harvey's thread. We are talking starting another seperate sticky thread. I think you might have misunderstood.
Beez
Beez
D
DJL
Self Banned
Oops, sorry about that.
H
Harvey Gerst
New member
Beez,
For all the reasons you mentioned, it's very tricky to do accurate mic comparisons. Different voices and instruments excite different regions in a mic's frequency response and it's hard to know what you'll get when used on all the different sources that are out there in the real world.
I really don't like to do any mic evaluations for that reason, but when I do, I try to use known sources and "guesstimate" what that mic might do with other sources. That's one of the reasons I use the TLM103 as my reference mic - it's very low noise, consistant from unit to unit, and a known source. I also use my voice which after 50+ years of recording, I know pretty well.
Plus I have a long background in hearing a lot of other mics, so I'm not fooled by high frequency peaks and proximity effect, mistaking those factors for more clarity or extra bass response. That's a big problem I have with people making evaluations of a mic based on very limited exposure to just a few mics. It's the main reason people often mistake high frequency peaks for extended high frequency response.
I'm not so full of myself that I think mic evaluations should only be left to people who know how to test mics. Hearing if a particular combination seems to work well for a user could be valuable information to all of us, but it still bothers me that some "reviewers" or new users don't really know what to listen for.
For all the reasons you mentioned, it's very tricky to do accurate mic comparisons. Different voices and instruments excite different regions in a mic's frequency response and it's hard to know what you'll get when used on all the different sources that are out there in the real world.
I really don't like to do any mic evaluations for that reason, but when I do, I try to use known sources and "guesstimate" what that mic might do with other sources. That's one of the reasons I use the TLM103 as my reference mic - it's very low noise, consistant from unit to unit, and a known source. I also use my voice which after 50+ years of recording, I know pretty well.
Plus I have a long background in hearing a lot of other mics, so I'm not fooled by high frequency peaks and proximity effect, mistaking those factors for more clarity or extra bass response. That's a big problem I have with people making evaluations of a mic based on very limited exposure to just a few mics. It's the main reason people often mistake high frequency peaks for extended high frequency response.
I'm not so full of myself that I think mic evaluations should only be left to people who know how to test mics. Hearing if a particular combination seems to work well for a user could be valuable information to all of us, but it still bothers me that some "reviewers" or new users don't really know what to listen for.
B
Beezoboy
Home Recording Guru
Harvey,
I completely agree with you, but then again we have YOU, and a few others with tons of experiece. I know the how tricky a large mic comparison could be. With your guidance it could be more of a reality, because you could help if it got way of base.
I am not sure you get my full intent though. FOR ME PERSONALLY, knowing that a mic tends to be bright overall, for example, or THE MICS overall tendancies really helps with MIC SELECTION. For instance, if you are recording mandolin or banjo, would you tend to choose a mic that is overly bright to begin with? In a dense mix maybe, but I think I might go with a more flat mic as not to over accentuate its high end. I am still learning too, just like everyone else, so I think it could kind of help to all people. Also it could help people with the "WHATS THE BEST VOCAL MIC" or "BEST MIC FOR ACOUSTIC." I know some of this is covered in the big thread, but I think this could grow into a huge RESOURCE.
I am really not interested in providing recordings, but I would just like to provide explanations as to the differences in mics according to a comparison to a reference mic.
You're right, this would very hard and subjective, but we do this same kind of thing every day on this forum when someone asks about Mic-A vs Mic-B.
Then again this could very well limit people to not experimenting? That would be bad.
Beez
I completely agree with you, but then again we have YOU, and a few others with tons of experiece. I know the how tricky a large mic comparison could be. With your guidance it could be more of a reality, because you could help if it got way of base.
I am not sure you get my full intent though. FOR ME PERSONALLY, knowing that a mic tends to be bright overall, for example, or THE MICS overall tendancies really helps with MIC SELECTION. For instance, if you are recording mandolin or banjo, would you tend to choose a mic that is overly bright to begin with? In a dense mix maybe, but I think I might go with a more flat mic as not to over accentuate its high end. I am still learning too, just like everyone else, so I think it could kind of help to all people. Also it could help people with the "WHATS THE BEST VOCAL MIC" or "BEST MIC FOR ACOUSTIC." I know some of this is covered in the big thread, but I think this could grow into a huge RESOURCE.
I am really not interested in providing recordings, but I would just like to provide explanations as to the differences in mics according to a comparison to a reference mic.
You're right, this would very hard and subjective, but we do this same kind of thing every day on this forum when someone asks about Mic-A vs Mic-B.
Then again this could very well limit people to not experimenting? That would be bad.
Beez
R
Recording Engineer
Moderator
Harvey Gerst said:
Done