hey, nice wood.

R

rayn_man

New member
I am trying to decide on a good overall drumset at an afordable price. It all seems to boil down to the shells: maple, maple/other combo, mahogany, birch. What is the best? why? what ply?

I will be doing mostly recording so the set doesn't need to necessarily be pretty or be of brand name. ie: pearl, dw, premier. I have been using a pearl export kit for about 1 year and was able to make it sound pretty good. But I was told that mahogany sucks which makes me wonder what I could do with maple

I have a small room. Although there is enough room to pull the mics back around 8 ft.
medium dampening: A HUGE sofa-bed, a large rug and a double bed. The ceiling is about 8.5 ft high.
 
rayn_man -

I don't know that there is any 'right' answer to your question. The topic of 'what is best' when it comes to drumsets and the wood/plys that they are constructed with, to me, is a very subjective question. My advice would be to get out there and play as many different kits as possible and decide on what YOU like - the sound, the feel, etc. Note as well that good heads and proper tuning can have as much to do with good sounding drums as the wood that they are constructed from.

I personally like beech. I have a Yamaha beech custom - the beech is a happy medium between maple and birch - warm with nice attack. With good heads and tuning - the drums sound amazing recorded. But that's just MY preference. I will say though that the sound improvement from entry/mid level kits (eg. Pearl Export) to the professional kits is pretty substantial. I still own an '80s Tama Swingstar and as much as I loved the kit for alot of years - the Yamaha blows it away.

pratt
 
rayn_man said:
I am trying to decide on a good overall drumset at an afordable price. It all seems to boil down to the shells: maple, maple/other combo, mahogany, birch. What is the best? why? what ply?

I will be doing mostly recording so the set doesn't need to necessarily be pretty or be of brand name. ie: pearl, dw, premier. I have been using a pearl export kit for about 1 year and was able to make it sound pretty good. But I was told that mahogany sucks which makes me wonder what I could do with maple

I have a small room. Although there is enough room to pull the mics back around 8 ft.
medium dampening: A HUGE sofa-bed, a large rug and a double bed. The ceiling is about 8.5 ft high.
Click to expand...

Hi Rayn_man,
I can tell you this:
Maple has a brighter sound, while birch has les midrange-which makes it sound like it's pre-equalized.

I personally prefer acrylic, which means I went with Maple.

How good are you with handtools?
For the price of a new economy kit, you can BUILD a set that will compete with the pro's.
I built my own kit, and all my friends have freaked out over the set. One guy (who's a DW user) went around telling everybody that my drumkit is the best sounding kit in Florida. Go figure! Hahaha And to think Originally, I was trying to get DW to custom build this kit for me!

You can order the sizes that you want, already drilled for lugs-and all you have to do is to use a "wipe-on" polyureathane...which you literally just wipe on with a lint free rag.
then you use one of those green 3M scrubby pads instead of sanding (because they do not break apart) to "sand" them.

For recording, you're better off with thinner shells-because the drum will have a lower natural pitch, as well as more resonance.

I've been repairing drums for about 14 years, and I built my kit in 1998-I wish I had done it earlier, because I went through a dozen drumkits looking for "THE sound", and I finally got it in the kit that I built.



Tim
 
Well, Tim, won't you tell us where to order drum shells at a reasonable price and also the hardware? This sounds interesting. How much are we talking for a typical rock-size 5-piece for shells+hardware+finish, i.e. all the stuff?
 
see the link below for one supplier that I found awhile ago:

http://www.precisiondrum.com/index.html

they seem to have everything that you would need except for finishes - which you could get at your local craft store, home depot, hardward store - wherever you go to buy paint and stuff. They do have a good assortment of drum coverings though - so if you want to go that way you can

I'm considering building a snare from this place - you can get a kit with everything that you need for right around $200

there seems to be a bunch of other suppliers on the 'net as well

Tim - are Keller shells more or less the standard?? what other companies are there that make quality shells?
 
yes, tim that would be cool. If you could leave that link that would be appreciated. I checked out the precision drum co. and they seemed a little expensive.
What does the bearing edge do? as aposed to what?
 
pratt said:
see the link below for one supplier that I found awhile ago:

http://www.precisiondrum.com/index.html


there seems to be a bunch of other suppliers on the 'net as well

Tim - are Keller shells more or less the standard?? what other companies are there that make quality shells?
Click to expand...


I used to get parts from Precision years ago...they always advertised in the back of Modern Drummer.

I use Drum Supply House now. When I built my Kit (1998), Andy Foote (the owner) went way above and beyond the call of duty to help me out-we spent quite a bit of time on the phone.
I was going to go with 8 ply kicks, but he suggest 10-ply, because of the size of the drums....and it was a good suggestion I think.

Their address is:

http://www.drummaker.com


As far as DIY Drums go, it's not that they are "cheap", it's just that you can get something comparable to
a DW, Porkpie,GMS, OCP/OCD (these are the same shells they use).
"Supposedly" DW is no longer using Keller Shells-but they used them for about 20 years.

An example:

My drumkit's total (Shells, Lugs, Couterhoops, Spurs, Floor Tom Legs, and brackets, and heads) was $1,975 and change.(Included in this price is $250 for a 20" 1979 Ludwig floor tom that I had to buy used to pilfer the Counterhoops for my new 20" Shell....which makes my Actual Cost from DSH $1,725...I also got a set of wooden hoops for the ludwig shell to make it into a Kickdrum from my ddrum set.)

I know to alot of people, that will be expensive.
When I contacted DW about build this kit for me, they wanted TWICE THAT for ONE 16"x28" Kick! Ludwig wouldn't even do it-and they actually CARRY a 16"x28" Bass (albeit a Marching Bass-which I wanted Spurs installed on instead of riging points for a marching harness)

My Grand total for the kit was approximately $4,500, which included all new Top of The Line Pearl hardware, a Pair of Axis Kick Pedals, and 7 New Paiste Sound Formula(2) and Signature(5) Cymbals (I use 11 Paiste Cymbals ranging in size from a 6" Cup Chime to a 22" Ride, and a 32" Gong).

When I built this kit-I was playing in a Power Metal band (my perference) and We wanted something that was Lower in pitch, and more of a visual thing. I had a Yamaha Recording custom kit at the time.
So, I went (and remember, this was strictly for looks live) with 28" Kicks. People still freak out over the size of the drums-but you know what, I get tons of compliments from drummers and soundmen on the sound of them, as well as from just joe-blow non-musicians on how they look and sound.
I'll tell you right now, that the kit I built sounds WAY better than my Recording Customs ever did.


There's also:

http://www.amdrumparts.com/

They have a single round Brass lug that alot of guys are using.

A 5 piece kit will run between $650 and $1,200 or so-it all depends upon what you get.
Thicker shells cost more. Lug's can range from $1.25 to $9.50 EACH depending upon what you get.

If I were building a kit for recording, here is exactly what I would get:

18"x22",9"x13",14"x16",14"x18" and either a 5"x14" or an 8"x14" snare.
Have the company do all your woodwork for you drilling,bearing edges-it will be worth it to you in the long run.
I just have a total dislike for for 6.5" snares.
I would get the toms in either 6ply, or 3-ply with 5-ply reinforcement rings. (which is like a DW), but I would go with 8-ply or 10-ply Kick and Snare, for a fatter sound...that way you'll get toms that have good TONE.
Tune the top heads to about 5 PSI, and the bottom heads to about 10 PSI, and these suckers will THUMP!

My gripe with drum tuning.​

Over the last 20+ years engineers and producers have been dictating to drummers how the drums should be tuned. Part of this, is because alot of drummers simply do not know how to tune drums.

I would say that 9 out of 10 drummers don't know how to tune their drumkits.
I've sat in on tons of kits that are HORRIBLE SOUNDING, one is a friend who has a GMS kit, and a Zildjian endorsement...his kit just sucks ass, because he can't tune....I think he's tonedeaf! The Kick and snare a tight, but his toms sound like 2 cardboard boxes.
I re-tune my kit all the time. The key is to find each drum's best range, and then work with the drums as a unit.
Toms should be "musical" sounding, not like a dead "blah" sound.

One of the reasons the "tuning problem" has come about is this:

Live it goes like this:

A young Drummer starts playing out in his band, they get a "soundman" to do their shows with his half-assed underpowered 30 year old Peavy Rig, and he tells the drummer-"you need to either tune your drums for the PA (which means extremely LOW) or Muffle them!".
Why? because mr "soundman" doesn't have noise gates, and wouldn't know how to set one up if he did.

Same thing happens in a studio, The Producer says "this will record better!"
A kick drum should not have wrinkles in the head! These guys are going for the "lowest note" possible, and half the time, they wind up putting a high pass filter on the kick to "tighten it up"....why not just tune the drum up to have that in your face sound naturally? It just makes more sense musically, AND ergonomically.
You are NOT going to make a 16"x22" sound like a 48" Concert Bass drum-that was the other reason I went with a 28" Kick drum. I can put a ton of tenstion on the drum (15PSI per lug using a neary troquewrench) and it's still lower in pitch than my 24" Yamaha kicks would ever go!)

Think about how much you hear about drummers with Physical ailments!
Why? Big band drummers didn't have these kinds of problems!
What's the difference?
Big band drummers tuned their kits so that they would SING! Thy had at least a medium tension on the drums-listen to "Sing sing sing" with Gene Krupa, man that Kit sounds AWESOME!



I need to get on the ball and get you guys some samples of my kit online...I've been so busy lately, that I haven't had a chance to do any recording. Half my gear is pulled apart (doing double duty in a sound system right now)-I'm also in the middle of building a new patching system, and I'm waiting on parts from Markertek. (They were going to hold the order while my new Noisegates were backordered...I broke down and ordered some Behringer gear...)

Sorry about this BOOK! Hahahaha


Oh yeah for finishes I would just use Minwax or Homer formby, or something like that.
Tim
 
If I could be so bold as to add a little more. Maple, Birch, Beech, Mahogany, - these are the most popular ( in general order of preference).

Maple is by far the highest regarded for tone, but I think Birch records better. As Tim stated, Birch seems to have less mid range, which I find makes it "easier" to record. (I'm sure there are dozens of Maple lovers who will disagree). The Yamaha Beech is a very good sounding kit, (at at this time you can get them dirt cheap - Yamaha is discontinuing the line - replaced by Beech Custom Absolute) I've seen them as low as $1100-$1200. It is rare to find a full Mahogany set, normally a set may have Maple or Birch inner and outer plys with Mahogany as the middle plys. Lower priced kits may have Mahogany mixed with something like Basswood

Less ply allows for more resonance (and in theory better sound - better for recording). More ply gives more projection, better for live performance. Obviously, whatever you buy, better heads will provide better sound.

Regarding building your own kit - You can build your own drums and if you are good with tools and use due good judgement you may end up with a good sounding kit. But, based on my experiance, by the time you pay for the materials and shipping and put a fair amount of sweat equity into it - you're very close to the cost of a store bough kit (but you do have the added value of pride in your own creation - whatever that value may be). I don't know anyone who has sold a kit they made, but I often wonder if the kit holds its value the way a Yamaha or Tama would. Lets face it if someone wanted to sell you a "kit they built" wouldn't you be doubtful? (but why would someone sell something that was "a part of them"?)

Lastly, in answer to the question of bearing edge. The bearing edge is perhaps the most important part of the drum shell. This is what the drum head sits on. The angle of the bearing edge (ie: how much wood contacts the head) affects the sound of the drum. If a bearing edge is warped or dented or "not true" the ability to accurately tune the drum is compromised. This is one of the most important aspects of building your own drum set. It is my understanding Keller shells have a good reputation concerning consitancy of shell shape and bearing edge.

For what it's worth I've owned Maple, Birch, Birch/Mahogany, Mahogany/Basswood, Fiberglass/Acrylic (hey it was the 70's), and other combinations I don't even remember. When all is said and done, it comes down to a combination of drums, heads and most importantly technique. I've heard good drummers make bad drums sound good (and bad drummers make good drums sound bad)

Good luck in your decision.
 
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