W
Wallycleaver
New member
I was the 1000th view, I just had to tell everyone!
T
tdukex
Man of the Muse
Meat and potatoes thread.
tubedude
New member
Ahhh..
Feels good to inspire people...
Feels good to inspire people...
frank_1
New member
C
Chuckschwandt
New member
A tight room sounds pro...
What makes a great final product ? I enjoy
the projects that have a nice tight room sound
around the musicians, not a cheesy bat cave
reverb- ha ha.
enjoy
What makes a great final product ? I enjoy
the projects that have a nice tight room sound
around the musicians, not a cheesy bat cave
reverb- ha ha.
enjoy
C
czar of bizarre
New member
inconsistent professionals
ya know guys i wanna ask and say something and i want you all to think about this for a moment. what is the PROPER level for tracking digital? i have been told 0db by a PROFESSIONAL,-3 by another PROFESSIONAL and -12 to -4 by another PROFESSIONAL. all big name people with YEARS experience. big name people with all that equipment. im not a PROFESSIONAL. i think im still green and wet behind the ears. others may think im a guru because i can show em how to tweak patchs or because i can pan a guitar or synth and add a delay to it and pan it to the opposite side.
when different PROFESSIONALS give insight on the SAME matter and you receive it your stuck. your like uh oh......wait a minute. he said this,however the other said that and the last guy said such and such. that leaves you experimenting and making mistakes which you can call a LEARNING process. which brings us to this point. why not experiment? how are you going to know that too much reverb is in the mix if you DONT experiement with the reverb? less is more. apply fx sparingly. use it to FILL OUT the mix if you have less notes (my opinion NOT a fact) or if the song calls for it.
a PROFESSIONAL says you should eq 5 times in the recording stage. the next PROFESSIONAL to come along will say to track it dry and then eq it. the PROFESSIONAL after him will say let the mastering engineer eq it during mastering. so can you see WHY people make stuff that sounds like crap?????? because so many different versions float around.
lets take compression. are sounds from a synth compressed? i was told yes. so why compress a synth? maybe it sounds good? a PROFESSIONAL will say to compress the kick drum and bass and vocals. the next PROFESSIONAL who comes along will say to compress the entire mix only during mastering. the last PROFESSIONAL will say to compress if needed or to make it louder. why over compress anyway? dont radio stations compress the hell out of the stuff anyway?
rules are made to be broken. i dont think ANYONE on this site or on the earth can say they are PROFESSIONALS. what sets you aside is EXPERIENCE, DISCIPLINE and the fact that you have EXPERIMENTED and LISTENED. so with all these PROFESSIONALS spewing how things are done the AMEUTURES(sorry 4 typos) are hearing different versions and taking 2 or 3 days because they DONT KNOW. the so called PROFESSIONALS can take 1 day because they have a format that they STICK WITH. hendrix panned the drums on one side and let the bass go to the other side. he broke the RULES and format. everyone who has made it and who has LONGEVITY set themselves apart from the crowd. by some trick or some glitch they found while experimenting.
with so many views on the same subject you have to go on gut instinct. if it aint broke dont fix it. if it is broke WHY is it broke? i say write good songs,play good music and use SEMI PRO gear and you will get cool results. write half ass songs with mediocre music and PRO GEAR and your results will be SHIT ON A STICK.
are any of you PROFESSIONALS or are you MAGICIANS who are clever at masking? have ANY of you made a PERFECT recording? i dont think such a thing exist.
no such thing as a pro. no such thing as a perfect recording. just different magicians with different tricks who know how to work the wand........
czar
ps. anita bakers "RAPTURE" album is something i have learned A LOT from. i learned something called the "CRASH" technique. she did something on that album that i have not heard before or since...........please listen to it
pps.please dont take this post as an insult or disrespect. im sure you are all great muscians and engineers and roadies. however NONE OF YOU ARE CZARS!!!!!!!!
ya know guys i wanna ask and say something and i want you all to think about this for a moment. what is the PROPER level for tracking digital? i have been told 0db by a PROFESSIONAL,-3 by another PROFESSIONAL and -12 to -4 by another PROFESSIONAL. all big name people with YEARS experience. big name people with all that equipment. im not a PROFESSIONAL. i think im still green and wet behind the ears. others may think im a guru because i can show em how to tweak patchs or because i can pan a guitar or synth and add a delay to it and pan it to the opposite side.
when different PROFESSIONALS give insight on the SAME matter and you receive it your stuck. your like uh oh......wait a minute. he said this,however the other said that and the last guy said such and such. that leaves you experimenting and making mistakes which you can call a LEARNING process. which brings us to this point. why not experiment? how are you going to know that too much reverb is in the mix if you DONT experiement with the reverb? less is more. apply fx sparingly. use it to FILL OUT the mix if you have less notes (my opinion NOT a fact) or if the song calls for it.
a PROFESSIONAL says you should eq 5 times in the recording stage. the next PROFESSIONAL to come along will say to track it dry and then eq it. the PROFESSIONAL after him will say let the mastering engineer eq it during mastering. so can you see WHY people make stuff that sounds like crap?????? because so many different versions float around.
lets take compression. are sounds from a synth compressed? i was told yes. so why compress a synth? maybe it sounds good? a PROFESSIONAL will say to compress the kick drum and bass and vocals. the next PROFESSIONAL who comes along will say to compress the entire mix only during mastering. the last PROFESSIONAL will say to compress if needed or to make it louder. why over compress anyway? dont radio stations compress the hell out of the stuff anyway?
rules are made to be broken. i dont think ANYONE on this site or on the earth can say they are PROFESSIONALS. what sets you aside is EXPERIENCE, DISCIPLINE and the fact that you have EXPERIMENTED and LISTENED. so with all these PROFESSIONALS spewing how things are done the AMEUTURES(sorry 4 typos) are hearing different versions and taking 2 or 3 days because they DONT KNOW. the so called PROFESSIONALS can take 1 day because they have a format that they STICK WITH. hendrix panned the drums on one side and let the bass go to the other side. he broke the RULES and format. everyone who has made it and who has LONGEVITY set themselves apart from the crowd. by some trick or some glitch they found while experimenting.
with so many views on the same subject you have to go on gut instinct. if it aint broke dont fix it. if it is broke WHY is it broke? i say write good songs,play good music and use SEMI PRO gear and you will get cool results. write half ass songs with mediocre music and PRO GEAR and your results will be SHIT ON A STICK.
are any of you PROFESSIONALS or are you MAGICIANS who are clever at masking? have ANY of you made a PERFECT recording? i dont think such a thing exist.
no such thing as a pro. no such thing as a perfect recording. just different magicians with different tricks who know how to work the wand........
czar
ps. anita bakers "RAPTURE" album is something i have learned A LOT from. i learned something called the "CRASH" technique. she did something on that album that i have not heard before or since...........please listen to it
pps.please dont take this post as an insult or disrespect. im sure you are all great muscians and engineers and roadies. however NONE OF YOU ARE CZARS!!!!!!!!
sjoko2
New member
Proper level for digital recording is dependent on the dynamics of the track you are recording - but NOT TO EXCEED 0dB at any cost.
So if you are for instance tracking a synth with a quite level program, get close to -3 and maximum.
Of cause if you record something with a lot of dynamics - you'd be more careful, perhaps set your average level slightly lower, or use a limiter / compressor to even out the input volume.
The theory of recording a track to maximum volume remains the same as analogue - but 0dB cannot be exceeded.
EQ - There is only one "rule" for optimum quality, which is get it right in the first instance - get your sound right before it is recorded, in which case you will need the minimum of EQ and other tweeking at any later stages. The more processing - the worse the sound quality, unless it is done for effect.
Compression - like everything else - there is no set rule, no you have to this and you have to that. Just get it so you are happy with the way it sounds, that's the one valid and good rule. It that means you compress the shit out of something - so what?
All you have to remember is that the more you compress a mix (as opposed to individual tracks) - the less your dynamic range.
So if you are for instance tracking a synth with a quite level program, get close to -3 and maximum.
Of cause if you record something with a lot of dynamics - you'd be more careful, perhaps set your average level slightly lower, or use a limiter / compressor to even out the input volume.
The theory of recording a track to maximum volume remains the same as analogue - but 0dB cannot be exceeded.
EQ - There is only one "rule" for optimum quality, which is get it right in the first instance - get your sound right before it is recorded, in which case you will need the minimum of EQ and other tweeking at any later stages. The more processing - the worse the sound quality, unless it is done for effect.
Compression - like everything else - there is no set rule, no you have to this and you have to that. Just get it so you are happy with the way it sounds, that's the one valid and good rule. It that means you compress the shit out of something - so what?
All you have to remember is that the more you compress a mix (as opposed to individual tracks) - the less your dynamic range.
S
samich17
New member
i've read many good points and counter points on this website, but this thread is among the best so far.
I believe I have decent equipment to work with and some genuine talent, but I've come to realize that none of this matters unless I spend quality time with my mind. I've gotten lazy, I think there must be a ratio of equipment to laziness...The more equipment I get, the more lazy I become. I decided, after finding the Recording Connections Program, that i am going to apprentice with an experienced engineer. I would recommend this to anyone, the fee is low and the training is very intensive and better yet, one on one in a real studio (NOT IN A CLASSROOM!). I want to be the best I can be in this elaborate field of sound. Can I settle for being only mediocre at songwriting, tracking, mixing or mastering? Sure I could, but I know I have the potential to be so much more..For me, it really takes a great deal of determination, focus and migraines, but it's more than worth it...It isn't about getting signed or selling records. Music can be transcendental, so why then just shoot for it to make us money. Music was purer back in the day, way back in the day, before track recorders, compressssors and DAT's. Musicians had to not just be good, they had to be phenominal (AND THEY MADE LITTLE TO NO MONEY!) but it wasn't a concern, because it was the norm. Beethoven finished his last symphony in complete deafness. He didn't have to, there was no monatary incentive. Thousands of music creating years went by before it became a market. I like to call it the Pure Age of Art. And in just the passed 75 years, we (people) have raped art with currency. The good thing is, it isn't the end all of pure art. Exceptions will always be around to remind us of the good ol' days. I predict that we will return to a version of those days, it is already happening with this webpage as an example...So many great artists here sharing their creations and we aren't making any money. I bet that none of you really care that you aren't making money, because you have other means to make money. ALright, I'm brainfried..felt good to ramble a bit.
I believe I have decent equipment to work with and some genuine talent, but I've come to realize that none of this matters unless I spend quality time with my mind. I've gotten lazy, I think there must be a ratio of equipment to laziness...The more equipment I get, the more lazy I become. I decided, after finding the Recording Connections Program, that i am going to apprentice with an experienced engineer. I would recommend this to anyone, the fee is low and the training is very intensive and better yet, one on one in a real studio (NOT IN A CLASSROOM!). I want to be the best I can be in this elaborate field of sound. Can I settle for being only mediocre at songwriting, tracking, mixing or mastering? Sure I could, but I know I have the potential to be so much more..For me, it really takes a great deal of determination, focus and migraines, but it's more than worth it...It isn't about getting signed or selling records. Music can be transcendental, so why then just shoot for it to make us money. Music was purer back in the day, way back in the day, before track recorders, compressssors and DAT's. Musicians had to not just be good, they had to be phenominal (AND THEY MADE LITTLE TO NO MONEY!) but it wasn't a concern, because it was the norm. Beethoven finished his last symphony in complete deafness. He didn't have to, there was no monatary incentive. Thousands of music creating years went by before it became a market. I like to call it the Pure Age of Art. And in just the passed 75 years, we (people) have raped art with currency. The good thing is, it isn't the end all of pure art. Exceptions will always be around to remind us of the good ol' days. I predict that we will return to a version of those days, it is already happening with this webpage as an example...So many great artists here sharing their creations and we aren't making any money. I bet that none of you really care that you aren't making money, because you have other means to make money. ALright, I'm brainfried..felt good to ramble a bit.
A
Ace2000
New member
first rule - take all the books and throw them out the window.
2nd - Grab the yookolipser and take it back to the airport.
Seriously guys...the first ingredient would be great musicians.
Without them,you have sqaut that will sound professional.
End of story. You can record a great like Blackmore through a telephone and get a pro mix. A garage band through 24 bit is a garage band through 24 bit. Someone has to know what they're doing.
I mean, the reality is, take the shittiest sounding room according to most of today's producers, grab the shittiest mic you can find, get a Reel to Reel four track, and with Jimi Hendrix in the room in 1966, you get "Are You Experienced?" a recording that will outlive all of us. Sonically, it blows away anything made last year.
the idea of blaming an unprofessional sounding mix on equipment is a joke as far as Im concerned. Go record a small symphony where the players are of incredible caliber and a mix that sounds professional falls right into your hands. Your just tweaking knobs at that point. And no book can relate to you what your ears will tell you from listening to the albums themselves repeatedly over and over again..
thats my suggestion for a pro sounding mix in a nutshell.
2nd - Grab the yookolipser and take it back to the airport.
Seriously guys...the first ingredient would be great musicians.
Without them,you have sqaut that will sound professional.
End of story. You can record a great like Blackmore through a telephone and get a pro mix. A garage band through 24 bit is a garage band through 24 bit. Someone has to know what they're doing.
I mean, the reality is, take the shittiest sounding room according to most of today's producers, grab the shittiest mic you can find, get a Reel to Reel four track, and with Jimi Hendrix in the room in 1966, you get "Are You Experienced?" a recording that will outlive all of us. Sonically, it blows away anything made last year.
the idea of blaming an unprofessional sounding mix on equipment is a joke as far as Im concerned. Go record a small symphony where the players are of incredible caliber and a mix that sounds professional falls right into your hands. Your just tweaking knobs at that point. And no book can relate to you what your ears will tell you from listening to the albums themselves repeatedly over and over again..
thats my suggestion for a pro sounding mix in a nutshell.
tubedude
New member
Damn, how did this thread re-surface. One of my OLD ones.
Shitty room, huh? Shitty equipment? Where WAS that recorded, exactly? And what was used? Somehow I think that was recorded in New York, in a GREAT room, with pretty decent mics (neumann) and decent stuff for the time. I may be wrong. ANyone?
Shitty room, huh? Shitty equipment? Where WAS that recorded, exactly? And what was used? Somehow I think that was recorded in New York, in a GREAT room, with pretty decent mics (neumann) and decent stuff for the time. I may be wrong. ANyone?
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Ace2000
New member
ALL recorded in London, produced by Chas Chandler.
"Are You Experienced?" was recorded in several studio's.
By today's standards, some prosducers wouldn't want to record a radio jingle there, let alone an album. This was 1966.
"Hey Joe" was recorded on a four track..Sparse for money they recorded it on the installment plan. A few different studio's around London were used. But that's not the point....
Deep Purple recorded a legendary album in a hallway.
Bonham recorded drums outside once. By today's standards, you can get better microphones than what they used.
When Hendrix hit the scene, a compressor was relatively new.
They used one in1966 on that album.
but the point is all the best gear in the world won't make up for a crappy source of music.
The question was "one definative tip for a pro mix."
well, to me the answer is simple. Awesome musicians.
They'll sound pro on a 4 track. All the 24 bit in the world
won't make it sound pro if the band or song is weak.
"Are You Experienced?" was recorded in several studio's.
By today's standards, some prosducers wouldn't want to record a radio jingle there, let alone an album. This was 1966.
"Hey Joe" was recorded on a four track..Sparse for money they recorded it on the installment plan. A few different studio's around London were used. But that's not the point....
Deep Purple recorded a legendary album in a hallway.
Bonham recorded drums outside once. By today's standards, you can get better microphones than what they used.
When Hendrix hit the scene, a compressor was relatively new.
They used one in1966 on that album.
but the point is all the best gear in the world won't make up for a crappy source of music.
The question was "one definative tip for a pro mix."
well, to me the answer is simple. Awesome musicians.
They'll sound pro on a 4 track. All the 24 bit in the world
won't make it sound pro if the band or song is weak.
S
samich17
New member
I sold a cd of 10 different 30 second loops I made on Fruity Loops (which collectively took me about 4 hours to make) for $1,000, so anything's possible.
Paul881
Look Mom, I can play!
Led Zep IV was recorded largely in a stately home using the Rolling Stones "Portable" mobile recording studio out of some huge truck. Bonham played drums on the landing of the great house because of the fantastic acoustics. Took em all days to set up. Which brings us right back to the learning points for me in this inspiring thread. Spend the time getting it tracked right to begin with, use your ears, don't EVER think about getting it right in the mix as an excuse to be sloppy in the tracking set up. If an hour becomes a day becomes a week, so what? Get it right first time and the mix will be easier.
Blue Bear and sjoko2, I have copied and printed out your replies on this post and will read them at regular intervals to keep me straying from the path of true righteuosness!
Who needs reverb, EQ and compression anyway Just saved ourselves a pot full of money
(Lol)
Blue Bear and sjoko2, I have copied and printed out your replies on this post and will read them at regular intervals to keep me straying from the path of true righteuosness!
Who needs reverb, EQ and compression anyway
Just saved ourselves a pot full of money (Lol)