here to bring 'misery'

  • Thread starter Thread starter maryslittlesecret
  • Start date Start date
I haven't tried it myself, but what about trying the mic modeler?
Recording with the C3000 and then running it throught the modeler?
Someone I know did it to a NT1 and it sounded much better.

Keijo
 
You know I think your stuff rocks. I'm not as sold on this song as I am on the 4 previous.

Things I do like:

1) the crispy sound you get on your high guitar chords. I have tried everything on my pod, and have determined that it must have something to do with your particular guitar, because none of my 5 guitars get that sound.
2) the bridge. I think this is the first time I've heard you play clean guitar. Also, you used a lot less of the techno instrumentation... it came out seeming very tasteful.
3) I always like your vocals. I don't think fighting the "thin" charactor of your vocals is a good idea, especially when you consider how well they fit with the other frequencies in the song. However, I would suggest, as I always do, singing most of your verses really close to a large diaphragm condenser (the 3000, or my personal choice is a Rode NTK). Then when you're tracking the louder vocals (in a different take), back up a few inches. Also good job on all the harmonies, your voice keeps getting better.

Things I don't like:

1) verses. they're not as strong, content or hook-wise, as your other songs. (maybe I just expect too much?) also, I think you should have the guitars in there the whole time, or consider altering the bass line for the first few verses to be a little more melodic and filling. It feels a little empty, sparse, whatever you want to call it.
2) the distorted scream. the problem with this scream, which i love on your other songs, is that it's on other songs, and it sounds almost the same (I think it's "answer me" on Job's Song, I think it's on Relativity also, on this song it's "me" @ 3:06). Maybe you could find a different distortion effect or something to vary this effect in different songs.
 
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warlock -- thanks for the hint. I may be a bit slow with this, but is there a mic modeler in Sonar? I peeked around in my plug-ins and couldn't find it... If it's in there, please let me know where. If not, I'd appreciate some details on this -- how much, how effective is it, etc. sounds like it could be very cool...

and charger -- awesome input as always. I can't argue with you on much. this is not my fave of our songs either (though some friends feel otherwise). if the guitar is key to my tone, you should downgrade... ;) I'm using a Jackson PS4, which was all of about $400 shiped to my door... thanks on the bridge. for us, it almost seemed kind of empty with the (1st time) clean guitar and minimal loops, but I'm glad it worked for you. and I usually try to eat the mic on the vocals, but more often than not, the vocal dynamics change within the take so I don't often have the luxury of doing my 'loud' vox on a separate track... any tips for taming an 'all over' vocal track?

as for the less impressive elements, the verses were intended to be sparse and kind of hollow, but I can see where you might feel there's too little there. and the scream -- guilty. i'm running out of different ways to switch up my performance ;) plus, screaming is all the rage these days -- gotta stay hip to the young kids ;). keep us posted on the "job's song" frankenstein project... :D

J
http://www.mp3.com/30SoS
 
maryslittlesecret said:
but is there a mic modeler in Sonar? I peeked around in my plug-ins and couldn't find it... If it's in there, please let me know
Click to expand...
If I'm not mistaken the mic modeler is an Antares DirectX plugin.
There's usually a demo you can try, if you get the effect you need.

Keijo
 
any tips for taming an 'all over' vocal track
Click to expand...

Compression... lots of compression. I use a Joemeek VC6Q and turn the compression controls up about halfway for vocals, it's pretty crushed but it sounds great, also the mic pre sound isn't bad.

keep us posted on the "job's song" frankenstein project...
Click to expand...

Hey! It's "Complete." And it's sounding pretty great so far, I'll send you an mp3 when it's about half done.
 
I'm a dork... we have another friend working on "job's song". Definitely drop us a file when you're at a point where you can share. We're excited to hear it...

And for the mucho compression, is that while tracking, while mixing, or both? And how about release time -- I'm assuming slow for vox?

J
 
I'm looking at a printout of the settings for the joemeek right now. Here's my approximate settings:

Singer about 3-5 inches from Rode NTK -> Joemeek VC6Q > Pro Tools.

Mic Gain: between 20 - 30
Comp: On
Compression: 5.5 - 7
Ratio: 3:1 - 4:1
Attack: 2 - 3 ms
Release: 1 second -1.25 seconds
Master Gain: to decent levels

I never record eq; the NTK/Joemeek combo sounds pretty great without it, though I will eq vocals to fit a mix.
 
Hey, charger. I did a little research on the Joe Meek unit and everyone seems to say it has a very distinct sound you either love or hate... Any input on this? Better yet, do you have anything posted online where I can hear it in action? It's in my price range, so I'd be interested in checking it out. Let me know. Thanks!

J
http://www.mp3.com/30SoS
 
The Meek units are very good units, but you're limited to the "Meek sound". Still, those who use them, swear by them, and it's a nice, warm-sounding unit. I doubt that anybody really "hates" the Meek sound, they mostly just complain about it's inability to be "transparent".

There are preamps out there that are transparent, like the Focusrite Platinum, which is also in the same ballpark, in the $500 range. It's also a nice unit, and very,very clean. The downside is that it's Solid State... hence, no tube warmth.

There are also preamps that will go both ways, from tranparent to colored sound. The MindPrint Envoice is a good example.
I bought the Envoice after comparing (roughly) 15 different preamps in the $400 to $1,000 range. It seemed like the best choice, since it had a wider variety of sound and it didn't kill my wallet @ $450. That was just MY preference, though.

There's lots of choices when it comes to preamps. But, don't buy a preamp based on someone else's recommendation, go listen to them for yourself. You might be happy if you do buy a preamp based on someone's suggestion, but you'll never know what you may have missed by not making comparisons.
Do some homework, you'll be glad you did.

Buck
 
Great tune. How did you get that fat bass tone? If I could get half the the sounds your getting I'd be one happy camper. If your worried about the vocal sounds maybe a little more effects and a better mic and this and that and this and that etc. It could go on forever I'd just leave it. The tune rocks.
 
Hey, Gag. Thanks for the comments. In terms of the bass tone, I just run my 5-string SoundGear through my guitar POD -- no special gear or tricks. You'd be surprised the tones you can get out of the one little piece of gear -- I run all my guitars through it as well (obviously) ;)

If you've got the $$$ and are into recording, the POD is a must have in my opinion -- makes guitars easy (plus you can record in the middle of the night without waking up the neighbors...) :D Thanks again...

J
http://www.mp3.com/30SoS/
 
hey mary I have a pod2 and mackie pro vlz as well. My buddy uses a fender pre which we ran thru my pod but no where as fat as what you get.If you have alittle time maybe you can give a few specifics on settings or check out my tune at http://www.mp3.com/glowboy and pass on your thoughts I'm just starting to get the hang of this homestudio stuff.thanks Gag.
 
charger (or anyone else :)) - for what it's worth - for vocals I used an NTK through a VC6Q for the three mp3s I put up here last week, and the settings I used are pretty much identical to the ones you named.
 
Yeah, I've got one coming, a song that vocals were originally tracked using an AT4033, and they've since been replaced with NTK/VC6Q... but it takes a while for my hosting system of choice to post updated songs... I'll message you when it's up, J.
 
Great song once again! Shit man, your songs get stuck in my head and I end up singing them to myself. Definately the sign of a radio ready tune.

I too am amazed at the results you get with modest equipment that you have. I think you have a lot more to share with the rest of us than you give yourself credit for.

Do you even own a pair of near field monitors? I didn't notice it in your equipment list. Your mixes translate well regardless.

Your vocals don't sound half bad. I think I'll vote in favor of the SM58 over the C3000 for your songs. Your voice has a unique character to it. I hope you aren't looking to change that.


I am also impressed by the realistic flams and drum rolls you sequenced with the DR660. Care to share any tips or is your drummer in charge of all the programming?


Drew
 
Sorry to lagging behind in my responses -- I got hung up with the Sonar 1.3 error and had a hard time focusing on much else. Thanks for all the responses...

Gag -- glad you're diggin' the tones. I can't really give you many details on my POD settings since I don't really know them anymore -- once you have a preset on the POD, you can't just look at where the knobs are because they can get moved around and not effect your preset unless you save. The advice I'll give is to get a couple of your fave CDs, find a part where the guitar is by itself, and try to dial in the POD to match that tone (for example I pulled from godsmack, deftones, 7dust, etc.) The thing to remember is that the awesome thick guitar tone that sounds killer by itself is probably not going to sound as good with all the other instruments... Let me know if there's any more input I can offer. And I still hope to one day post my POD patches online (as soon as I can find the time to figure out how to do it...)

Dobro -- Thanks for letting us know you're using the Meek. I went back out and listened to the tunes again (very cool in their originality, btw). I think I can hear the distinct tone everyone mentions. However, after spending some serious time with my preamp, I think I may have found a way to dial in my vox a little more to my liking, so hopefully I can hold off on new gear -- at least until I post the next tune and see if the pro ears out here agree... ;)

Charger -- still let us know when your tune is up so I can swing out and check it. Though hopefully my new preamp settings will have helped to alleviate my vocal woes... :rolleyes:

And VS -- good to hear from you again! We really apprecaite the comments on the tunes -- we're thrilled to know they're driving you nuts by sticking in your head... :D If there are any specific questions you have for me about things we're doing, please feel free to ask. I don't know what valuable info I could volunteer, but I'm more than happy to sahre if you (or anyone) has a question. And yes, though I forget about them, I own a pair of Alesis M1 actives. I had to send them back twice(!) before I got a reliable pair, but since then they've treated us well. And the vocals... well, the vocals we could debate about. ;) I'm not morbidly depressed with them, but I feel they're lacking, especially in comparison with the rest of the mix. And yes, if I could change my voice to sound more like Maynard (Tool), Lajon (7dust), or Brandon (Incubus) I would in a heartbeat. But I am very glad that people like you seem to think it's okay -- it inspires me to keep working at it.

Wow, this was a long one. That's what I get for driving myself nuts waiting for the 1.3.1 update. Let me know if there's anything I missed or if there are any other questions or comments. Thanks everyone!

J
http://www.mp3.com/30SoS
 
thanks for reply, (as far as pod settings go) how about your bass sound you mentioned that you ran it thru a pod as well( i tried the tube pre amp model for bass but could be better)also how do you set your strip settings for git and bass? hope i'm not being a pain. I think my writing is okay but my recordings suck the big banana so I hope you can add a little more insight very much appreciated thanks again Gag
 
Hey, Gag. Sorry if I'm slow replying -- just got back from vacation... No, you're definitely not being a pain -- I just wish I could be more help...

I don't remember what amp or cab I used with the bass -- just toyed around until I found something I liked. I actually dialed in about four or five different tones, recorded them with the guitar tones we chose, and picked one from there to make sure we had one that blended well...

And in terms of strip settings, I'm a little lost. If you mean EQ strips, I don't use any -- direct from the POD to my PC to the final mix. We don't do any FX or EQ on the gtr or bass. If you don't mean EQ strips, you'll have to spell it our for me (I can be a little dense)... ;)

Let me know if there's anything else I can help with -- and if you have a recent tune posted, let me know the link so I (we all) can take a listen. Lata!

J
http://www.mp3.com/30SoS
 
thanks again for the reply mary. I was referring to the board EQ.I'm running my pod thru the mackie so I can utilize a couple of outboard effects to save on my PC processing ,my first tune was way out of whack in mixing and panning and overall sound . Everybodies input from these forums helps immencely so THanks again.The one tune I have(which is being redone) is at www.mp3.com/glowboy . If you get the chance let me know what you thinkof the song. Cheers Gag
 
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