Help with using a mic preamp

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TaRaNTuLa

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Hello people. I'm new here as everyone has undoubtedly guessed, and I have a question concerning the use of a Mic preamp. I use a Roland VS1680 hard disc recorder and I have a Rode NT1 microphone. I plug the mic into channel one, Which in the case of the 1680, is an XLR balanced input, and raise the fader for that channel to bring the level up to a proper level, and find myself needing to adjust the input sensitivity knob because there just isnt enough signal. After I get the knob to a position where the signal is adequate, the headroom noise is unacceptable and really ruins things. I am guessing that I need a mic preamp. The one Im looking at is the DBX 286A. This particular unit uses some kind of compression and some other dodad effects, which I understand nothing about. It has an nXLR input and can use 48volt phantom power. Now, my question is, If I plug my Rode NT1 into this unit via the XLR input, do I also need to switch the phantom power on? My microphone does need phantom power but I thought that might be irelevant if I was using a mic preamp. Also, how does the preamp send the signal now to my Roland VS1680? via an XLR out? Or a 1/4 connector? I realize thats a dumb question because I havent given anyone the specs on this unit, however, I myself do not know the specs and am simply considering buying this unit because they say DBX is good quality stuff. If Im wrong, please do correct me. Also, any suggestions for a good compressor? Or even a better mic preamp than the DBX? Thanks for any help and this forum is a godsend baby. Peace.
 
Consider getting an RNP by FMR Audio -- excellent quality and a great price point.
 
The dbx 286 sucks pretty bad, a friend has got one. The preamp itself is ok for the price I guess, but the rest of the unit is just weird. You have compressor without a threshold knob or ratio knob, just "compression"... and while there are ways to operate the damn thing anyway, I would never recommend it to someone who's gonna buy their first outboard, since it fucks up their thinking. If you have a 286 and wanna get tips on some basic settings, you wouldn't know what the hell they talked about, since the 286 ain't got the right named knobs and way of function.

Also includes a useless de-esser and some exciter if I recall correctly. Exciters don't belong in mic pre's IMO. On the good side, the preamp has a separate out on the back, so it can be used as a preamp only without all the bullshit included, but then you would be paying for whistles that don't whistle anyway.

My rating: 1 of 5.
 
TaRaNTuLa said:
Hello people. I'm new here as everyone has undoubtedly guessed, and I have a question concerning the use of a Mic preamp. I use a Roland VS1680 hard disc recorder and I have a Rode NT1 microphone. I plug the mic into channel one, Which in the case of the 1680, is an XLR balanced input, and raise the fader for that channel to bring the level up to a proper level, and find myself needing to adjust the input sensitivity knob because there just isnt enough signal. After I get the knob to a position where the signal is adequate, the headroom noise is unacceptable and really ruins things. I am guessing that I need a mic preamp. The one Im looking at is the DBX 286A. This particular unit uses some kind of compression and some other dodad effects, which I understand nothing about. It has an nXLR input and can use 48volt phantom power. Now, my question is, If I plug my Rode NT1 into this unit via the XLR input, do I also need to switch the phantom power on? My microphone does need phantom power but I thought that might be irelevant if I was using a mic preamp. Also, how does the preamp send the signal now to my Roland VS1680? via an XLR out? Or a 1/4 connector? I realize thats a dumb question because I havent given anyone the specs on this unit, however, I myself do not know the specs and am simply considering buying this unit because they say DBX is good quality stuff. If Im wrong, please do correct me. Also, any suggestions for a good compressor? Or even a better mic preamp than the DBX? Thanks for any help and this forum is a godsend baby. Peace.
Click to expand...

As always, you have to "bypass" your Roland pre-amps. Check to see if you have a channel insert. If not, you will still be using your Roland pre-amps even though you turn the knob to zero. Looking at the Roland, the digital inputs are the only way I can see to bypass the Roland pre-amps. You will need to get a pre-amp that has digital outs to properly use it with the Roland. This is a very common problem and others that have bought good pre-amps have posted that the new pre-amps sound the same as the Roland pre-amp. They just don't know that the new pre-amp is not doing anything because it just gets killed by the Roland pre-amp.

So, you need a pre-amp with digital outs to properly use it with the roland.



Anyway, Good Luck.
 
Blue Bear Sound said:
Consider getting an RNP by FMR Audio -- excellent quality and a great price point.
Click to expand...

The poster needs digital outs. The RNP will not work.
 
acorec said:
They just don't know that the new pre-amp is not doing anything because it just gets killed by the Roland pre-amp.
Click to expand...

Except adding noise to the chain, and as an end result making the sound worse than it was with the Roland pres only.

I agree he needs a digital out preamp, Mindprint has a pretty nice affordable stereo preamp with (optional?) A/D, called DI port.

DI_Port_front.jpg
 
acorec said:
As always, you have to "bypass" your Roland pre-amps. Check to see if you have a channel insert. If not, you will still be using your Roland pre-amps even though you turn the knob to zero. Looking at the Roland, the digital inputs are the only way I can see to bypass the Roland pre-amps. You will need to get a pre-amp that has digital outs to properly use it with the Roland. This is a very common problem and others that have bought good pre-amps have posted that the new pre-amps sound the same as the Roland pre-amp. They just don't know that the new pre-amp is not doing anything because it just gets killed by the Roland pre-amp.

So, you need a pre-amp with digital outs to properly use it with the roland.



Anyway, Good Luck.
Click to expand...

Yup,

Just like when I had an all in one recorder and bought a TL Audio pre. No improvement.

Somebody posted a great analogy on here a while ago regarding pres through pres:

You have 2 sheets of glass.

One is new, clean and crystal clear.
The other is old, dirty and you can't see much through it

Now if you place one sheet over the other, visibility is still only as good as the dirtier (poorer quality) glass.

It's sort of like that with preamps.
 
off topic, a quickie

the tascam 244 doesn't have built-in mic-pres does it?
 
Actually, in the real world, what the others have said above is only partially true. The more gain you have to get from the Roland's pres, the worse they sound. So- if you take even a good cheap pre, say a DMP-3, and jack it into the channel in on the Roland, turning input gain to 0 (line), the improvement in the sound is noticeable. If you plug that pre into even a fairly cheap A-D convertor, say a TC Electronics M300 with the bypass switch on, the sound will improve a little more, because you have totally bypassed the Roland's pres, and its A-D conversion isn't really better than an M300. Now- plug your Avalon AD2022 into a Lucid AD9624, and then into the Roland by S/PDIF. It rocks! That's basically how I recorded my first album, 2 tracks at a time.
My point remains the same- using better outboard pres even into the Roland's analog ins significantly improves recorded sound. Yes the Roland's pres suck- but they suck *a lot more* when you actually use them to generate gain.-Richie
 
acorec said:
The poster needs digital outs. The RNP will not work.
Click to expand...
oops - didn't notice that...

In that case, an RNP with a Lucid AD9624 converter! ;)
 
Hmmmmm

Okay, Im kinda lost here. Is the Mindprint Di-port going to do the job for me? Or do I need to spend five thousand dollars to get a good input signal on the Roland? I noticed that sometimes when I move the input sensitivity pot, I get some wierd scratching noises, kind like someone rubbing their fingers across a live mic. Could the pot just be shot? Should I upgrade and buy the newer VS2480 recorder? Oh what to do, what to do. Thank you very much to any one who has replied to me. I realize it takes precious time and Iam no one special, but people do respond, and to me, thats what makes this forum a godsend. Peace.
 
Hmmmmm

"Actually, in the real world, what the others have said above is only partially true. The more gain you have to get from the Roland's pres, the worse they sound. So- if you take even a good cheap pre, say a DMP-3, and jack it into the channel in on the Roland, turning input gain to 0 (line), the improvement in the sound is noticeable. If you plug that pre into even a fairly cheap A-D convertor, say a TC Electronics M300 with the bypass switch on, the sound will improve a little more, because you have totally bypassed the Roland's pres, and its A-D conversion isn't really better than an M300. Now- plug your Avalon AD2022 into a Lucid AD9624, and then into the Roland by S/PDIF. It rocks! That's basically how I recorded my first album, 2 tracks at a time.
My point remains the same- using better outboard pres even into the Roland's analog ins significantly improves recorded sound. Yes the Roland's pres suck- but they suck *a lot more* when you actually use them to generate gain.-Richie"

"if you take even a good cheap pre, say a DMP-3, and jack it into the channel in on the Roland, turning input gain to 0 (line), the improvement in the sound is noticeable. If you plug that pre into even a fairly cheap A-D convertor, say a TC Electronics M300 with the bypass switch on, the sound will improve a little more"

Are you saying that the Roland pres are shitty to the point that, the more gain you need to get from them, the more noise you can expect? Also, are you saying that using an analog mic pre connected to a D/A convertor is the best way to do it? A previous poster suggetsed using the Mindprint Di-port ewith digital outs would have the same effect. How does a bypass switch work, and what is it for? Please do fill me in. Thank you for the support. Peace.
 
M Audio TAMPA. Great Pre, Fantastic Compressor, Digital out and a great price to boot.
 
tarantula,
I did once use a diport with a vs1680 and it's better than the buildin pre-amps, but with the build in preamp you still can have a aceptable sound
when you check www.jamstudio.nl and listen to the band the Chick you can judge it by yourself it's all done with the build in pre-amps.
I think you'll get in trouble when you record soft sources (soft vocals /acc. guitars)
It could be the microphone as wel the NT1 got a pretty bad rep.

Remco

www.jamstudio.nl
 
I forgot 2 mention that the di-port got digi-out so you can bypass the buildin pramp of the vs1680

Remco
 
Hmmmmm

Okay, thats food for thought. I might try this M audio TAMPA. Another friend of mine has one and he thinks it sounds clean. Also, Im gonna sell my VS 1680 with a brand new cd burner, and one VSf2 effects card for 700.00 and buy the VS 2480. :rolleyes: Thank you so much for the input people and have a great day, or evening. Peace.
 
Now, my question is, If I plug my Rode NT1 into this unit via the XLR input, do I also need to switch the phantom power on? My microphone does need phantom power but I thought that might be irelevant if I was using a mic preamp.
Click to expand...

Since the NT1 is a condenser mic, I would go with "yes, you need to use phantom power with it". That would account for the need to crank the levels on your board to the max to get an usable level out of your mic.

Now, would an outboard pre be a step up from your unit's built-in pres? Probably, but its not necessary since your unit does have pres that are built in.
 
Yo Tarantula- Yes. What I'm saying is the more you turn up the Roland's pres, the more noise you get. The point of an outboard A-D convertor is twofold. The first is, it *might* be a better quality convertor than the Roland. More importantly, when you go in digital, the pres in the Roland aren't in the signal chain and do *nothing*. For remote recording, I use the Digi002 as a front end for the Roland, and the Roland as a hard drive with a mixer and a CD-R drive. Tampa or Toft ATC-2 would be good starting places.-Richie
 
Go Tarantula! I think you'll find the pres in the 2480 beat the hell out of the 1680, as well as the 1824, 2000, and the 2400. The Tampa should give you one pretty clean channel with available compression. Supported by the 2480's pres when necessary, I think that's a significant upgrade. Tracks will be much easier to export from the 2480 also. Congrats!-Richie
 
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