Help with Room Acoustic Treatments?

[studiodrum]

Hey Guys,
I need some help in trying to prepare a room to record and Mix down a few demo projects. . .The room in question is roughly 40' x 17' with 7.5' ceilings.

I realize that's its a really awkward, and funky shaped room, But I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions, on what I can do, or what materials I might buy to at least TRY and make the room, somewhat usable for recording and mixing. . .

You can tell by the diagram that my mixer board and monitors are set up in the middle of the room, I was thinking of possibly hanging some thick drapes behind the mixing board halfway down the middle of the room, and also possibly draping some canvas on the ceiling to give the ceiling a more contoured shape. But, I'm not sure if that's gonna help much.

So, if anyone has and ideas on what corners might be a good place to hang some bass traps, or if I should just re-arrange my studio setup, I would love to hear some input.

My budget in minimal, . .roughly 500 bucks . . I know that's kinda of low for a problematic room like this, . . But, that's all I have to work with right now

So, any help you can offer, would be greatly appreciated! Thanks

 

[studiodrum]

hmmmmmmm, Nobody wants to chime in here I'm desperate for some input, I havent a clue on the best way to setup in this space, I thought for sure my Home Recording Brotha's would have some ideasinput?

Okay. well I will try and be more specific . . .

1) should I re-arrange my equipment to achieve a better sound environment, . . and if so, where would you place the mixing board and, drums.

2) should I hang some drapes behind the recording mixer to split up the room to reduce some overtones.

3) should I hang some bass traps in the corners, . .and if so what corners would be more critical, if I could only afford 2 bass traps.

4) and last but not least, . . has anyone draped fabric the ceiling with any decent results , . .or should I just try and isolate the drums with hanging blankets and stuff?

Any, . . and all comments welcomed

 

[gcapel]

Are you planning on recording one instrument at a time?

 

[studiodrum]

Hey gcapel !

Most of the time, I would just be recording the Drums, and the bass together, . . with the bass going Direct, . .

. . and then eventually adding the guitar (which I plan on using the basement bathroom to mic the amp), . .and then adding the vocals separately.

 

[apl]

www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

www.realtraps.com

Look over Ethan's studio layout.

 

[chris-from-ky]

Try this. I didn't draw doors but you get the idea. Pink stuff is absorbers and I put some extra across the front window the control room. some of the red lines are stud walls.

 

[bpape]

That would work nicely if he's willing to put up walls. I got the impression from the $500 budget that the space would need to be used 'as is'.

If it were me and he can't build walls, then I'd do the following:

- Sealed wood panel absorbers as shown on Ethan's site would work great but might bust the budget. Start with broadband bass absorbtion in the 4 vertical corners floor to ceiling.

- Put up some reflection point control to create your RFZ.

- Make some movable panels that are hard on one side and open to 703 on the other. Turn them hard side out and at angles to the walls when recording, soft side out for more decay control when mixing.

 

[studiodrum]

New Update!

Thanks everyone for all your input! Everyone has contributed some great ideas
But, unfortunately, bpape is right, . .I really cant afford to build walls , .my space would need to use used 'as is'. .

However, after taking another look at my space, I have decided to take some chris-from-ky's suggestions, and re-arrange my setup, and change my layout. . . and I think I'm going to treat the room with a few bass traps, and several acoustic panels to start with. . . and then add-on from there, as time goes on, and I have a bigger budget.

I'm going to move the mixing console to the opposite side of the room, facing into the wall, but positioning the board about 5.5' from the wall-- which is roughly 38% from the wall. . .so that I have a little better room symmetry for my mixing console. . .

Also I think that I will move the drum to the center of the room, especially since the ceiling becomes a little bit higher at that point in the room, . .roughly 8.2', . . rather than the 7.5 on the other side of the room, . .and in the middle of the room-- there is that Alcove, which will eliminate at least one wall to worry about. ..and give the drums sound a bit more space to breathe.

I included a diagram of the new setup, and a diagram of where I would place some of the acoustic panels. . .Anyway, if anyone has anymore advice, I would love to hear any new suggestions.
Cheers!

 

[bpape]

Consider adding another 2" panel (or 2) on the front wall in front of the mix position.

Add more corner absorbtion in the far left corners of the room - in a room that size, you'll need all you can get.

Consider shifting the drums so they're not dead center in the room length wise - that's not a good place modally. Try them maybe 1/3 to 40% of the length.

Bryan

 

[studiodrum]

Hey Bryan, thanks very much for your input!
You mentioned that it might help to add another 2" panel or two on the front wall. . .?

Consider adding another 2" panel (or 2) on the front wall in front of the mix position.

Where exactly would that be?

Add more corner absorption in the far left corners of the room - in a room that size, you'll need all you can get.

Which (2) corners would that be, . . the two corners on the opposite side of the mixing console?

Consider shifting the drums so they're not dead center in the room length wise - that's not a good place modally. Try them maybe 1/3 to 40% of the length.

After moving the drums up a 1/3 of the room, do you think it would also be better to change the direction of the drums, and face them toward the 'Alcove' area, or is keeping them faced toward the direction of the mixing board a better position?

Thanks again Bryan

 

[pandamonk]

I'd install a heavy curtain with lots of folds behind the mixing position, and build 4-6" corner bass traps, and 2-4" broadband absorbers as shown. And bent plywood with insulation behind, like on ethans site, i think, the same size and directly across from the window.

 

[bpape]

Yes. The extra 2" panels would be the wall you're staring at when mixing.

As for the corners, in your original layout, they were on the left side of the drawing - not left side of the room - sorry.

I do like the idea in this last layout also. I'd watch the curtain behind you though - that's a TON of HF only absorbtion that could skew things. I'd be more inclined to build gobos that are hard on one side and soft on the other that you could arrange behind you in an angled fashion for use when mixing and also be used for drum/vocal iso.

Bryan

 

[pandamonk]

But wont the bass frequencies trapped by the curtain be greatly increased because of the distrance from the back wall? That's what I've learnt from here, that the further from the wall an absorbant material is, the better and bassier the frequency absorbtion is. If the curtain is heavey, and has lots of folds then it should absorb in the mid and high frequencies, and if so far from the wall, it should absorb a decent amount of bass. I'm probably wrong, but that's what i'v been made to believe by you guys.

 

[bpape]

A thin absorber like a curtain placed far from a boundary will have some effect but at a very very narrow frequency.

Overall, the things that determine how well and how deep an absorber will work are:

-Thickness
-Density
-Distance from the boundary.

Those things have to be taken in context though. I mean a concrete block 15' from the back wall won't do squat Seriously though, the curatin will do absolutely zero for any bass issues. All it will do is make the rear of the mix room totally dead from about 1500Hz up.

What I was proposing before will acutally work more like a diffusor - but obviously not a perfect one. It will just help with slap in the length dimension and allow some flexibily in 'tuning' things until you figure out what works best for you.

Sometimes with a limited budget, things like this that will do double or triple duty are the best way to spend your money.

Bryan

 

[studiodrum]

Thanks everyone, and thanks for the clarification Bryan!

Yes. The extra 2" panels would be the wall you're staring at when mixing.

So, where would you recommend installing these two additional 2" panels right smack in the middle on the wall in front of the mixing console, and maybe another panel in the corners where the wall and the ceiling meet? . . .?

As for the corners, in your original layout, they were on the left side of the drawing - not left side of the room - sorry.

I'm sill struggling with exactly what corners that your talking about ( I attached another diagram with numbered walls and corners) are you talking about CORNER 8 & 5? . . sorry for the confusion, I'm an idiot!

The Drums:
I was thinking of getting (2) 4x8' sections of 3/4" ply board and attaching them to the floor and set the drums up on them, . .since the entire room is wall to wall carpeting, . . Do you think its worth it, . or is it really not going to buy me anything?

Drum Direction:
Also, do you think that the drums would be better facing in the direction of the mixing console (WALL C) or in the direction of the Alcove area on (WALL F) , . . ?

Thanks guys, I hope everyone has a happy & safe Memorial Day weekend!

 

[studiodrum]

Okay, so I think I'm gettin closer Thanks so much guys for all your input and advice!

Since my budget is very limited at this time, . . I think I'm going to start off with two, or three (4" thick) Bass Traps in the corners, and one or two 2" Panels on the ceiling over the console, and maybe the drums. . . and the start adding additional 2" panels, as time goes on. . .

However, since the room is going to be setup as a dual room for both recording, and mixing,. . I'm kinda struggling with the best location for some of the instrument in the room, . .especially the drums, and the mixing console~ Most of the time I will only be tracking drums, and bass going direct with a DI box. So, isolation shouldn't be too much of a problem.

I have included 3 ideas, where I think might be the best setup. So, if anyone can help me with the better choice, . . or has a better solution, . . feel free to give a shout!

. . .also keep in mind that the drop ceiling is not a typical drop ceiling made with acoustical tiles, it's made of drywall, and that there is no wall along those dotted lines, its just to show that the ceiling lowers to 7.5' in that part of the room . . .

 

[pandamonk]

B2 is probably the best, 'cause with the other 2 the stereo positioning will be screwed. This will happen because one speaker is further from its side wall than the other is from its. ie the first reflections will hit you a different times and one will be slightly(probably not noticably) quieter. The mixing position should be centre along one wall, and spaced out a bit from it.

 

[studiodrum]

Thanks PandaM, . .I appreciate the input.

Yeah, I think you are right, . .I think that STUDIO SPACE B2 is the better way to go, . . or even possibly the new PDF diagram B4. ( a new diagram)

B4 is probably not as optimum as B2, since the mixing console is facing the opposite direction. But, I would really like the console to be facing in the directions of the other musicians. . .But, I realize that if I go that route, . . I will need to treat the wall behind the mixing console with a lot more acoustical panels, . . and that of course adds more money to my already non-existent budget. But, I feel like that layout is coming together, and I'm getting closer.

Now, all I have to figure out is where to place the drums AND what DIRECTION should they be facing in that room? ( I realize I have to experiment, but if anyone wants to throw some idea out there, to give me a starting point, . .that would help)

 

[pandamonk]

Thanks PandaM, . .I appreciate the input.

Yeah, I think you are right, . .I think that STUDIO SPACE B2 is the better way to go, . . or even possibly the new PDF diagram B4. ( a new diagram)

B4 is probably not as optimum as B2, since the mixing console is facing the opposite direction. But, I would really like the console to be facing in the directions of the other musicians. . .But, I realize that if I go that route, . . I will need to treat the wall behind the mixing console with a lot more acoustical panels, . . and that of course adds more money to my already non-existent budget. But, I feel like that layout is coming together, and I'm getting closer.

Now, all I have to figure out is where to place the drums AND what DIRECTION should they be facing in that room? ( I realize I have to experiment, but if anyone wants to throw some idea out there, to give me a starting point, . .that would help)

Definitely B2 is the best, is your ceiling sloping? Cause if so, that adds to the effectiveness of B2, cause the sound gets reflected to the back of the room where you should have acoustic treatment. why not just turn round when you are recording, instead of having the whole desk facing them.

 

[studiodrum]

Definitely B2 is the best, is your ceiling sloping? Cause if so, that adds to the effectiveness of B2, cause the sound gets reflected to the back of the room where you should have acoustic treatment. why not just turn round when you are recording, instead of having the whole desk facing them.

Yep, You're right PandM, . . The more and more, I think about it . . .B2 is the way to go, . . especially if I am going to have a dual room with both mixing and recording~ I think that I just have an image in my head that the engineer needs to be facing the musicians. But, realistically that probably the least of my problems.

. . and the ceiling is NOT sloped, . .its all drywall, and just drops down from 8 feet to 7.5 feet on one side of the room. .and the entire room is painted drywall throughout. No exposed concrete.

Anyway, my only other dilemma is whether or not to setup the drums all the way on the other side of the console, . .or leave them more toward the middle of the room like in the B2 diagram.

The disadvantage to setting the drums up on the other side of the room is that the room gets slightly narrower, and that means the drums would be closer to the surrounding walls. . .

I like the idea of having the drums closer to the middle of the room similar to the B2 diagram, . because in that area the walls are the widest, and its a bit more open, . . especially because of that alcove. but, the drawback is that they are in the middle of the room ~ I heard that it wasn't a good idea to have drums in the center of the room.

Anyway, that's where am at right now, . .decisions, decisions