Help with Multi-Band Compression

  • Thread starter Thread starter Seafroggys
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I was about to post until I read this. You read my mind. Also, to lump all MBC's into the same bin is careless. The Waves L3 is much different from the RN Dynamizer, which doesn't even resemble the Endorfin. I use all of em, usually for different purposes, and not always on the stereo buss. It was right to tell the OP that this particular problem is better solved by other means, but come on... it's unfair to attack a mere tool unless it's one of those ass hats from The Real World. And considering all of the other things holding your average home recordists back... it's very trivial.


It's a tool. Use it when necessary.

People "got by just fine" with tier dynamics of the organ and the harpsichord before the piano was invented. But try playing Rachmaninoff on a harpsichord... on the other hand, I hate hearing Bach on the piano. Yuck!

Sooo, people used to get by w/o the MBC during the Beatles era... People also made a lot of lopsided and "weird" mixes once Stereo just came out... I mean drums in ONLY the Left channel? Hurts my ear! Just as they abused Stereo for fun when it first came out, people are now abusing MBCs just because it's new. Eventually we will all come to realise yet again that less is more, and there is nothing inherently "evil" in using MBCs when done "properly".

Now, if you'll excuse me, I am going to go abuse some audio. Maybe I'll even strangle it with some MBC followed by Guitar Rig where I have an LFO modulating the size of the speaker cabinet in rhythm... try THAT with your hardware Mess Boogger.
 
I was about to post until I read this. You read my mind. Also, to lump all MBC's into the same bin is careless. The Waves L3 is much different from the RN Dynamizer, which doesn't even resemble the Endorfin. I use all of em, usually for different purposes, and not always on the stereo buss. It was right to tell the OP that this particular problem is better solved by other means, but come on... it's unfair to attack a mere tool unless it's one of those ass hats from The Real World. And considering all of the other things holding your average home recordists back... it's very trivial.
I use the Dynamizer all the time myself. Technically it's NOT a multi-band compressor...or should I say it is to MBCs what a parametric EQ is to bass and treble controls.

But that's not the point. Neither is it the point that MBCs are bad. They're not. It's their misuse on the 2mix as a substitute for tracking and mixing that is the evil, IMHO. And in my experience, it's not a trivial matter when it becomes a real trend and internet reality that that is how things are supposed to be done.

Hell we had a thread here just a few days ago, I forget which forum, where they guy was basically asking, "OK, I'm done mixing and mastering; now it's time for me to actually make it sound good it with the multiband compressor. How do I do that?" And that is far from an isolated instance. There seems to be a wikiality that has spread across the Internet like an arson fire in Greece that says:

"Here's how you make a gold record:

"1. Record using as many tracks as you can fit into your interface. Don't worry too much about the sound unless it's your guitar, then you just need to make sure you have it too loud and too distorted for actual recording, the rest will be fixed later. That's called 'tracking'.

"2. Then, individually make each track sound as good as you can get it (the word "awsome" is usually used). Compress the tracks. Pan them hard left, center and hard right. Then layer them on top of each other in your DAW software so they are all at the same volume and sum them down to stereo. That's called 'mixing'.

"3.Then apply heavy MBC to the 2mix to get it to sound right; and squeeze the results through a hard limiter set to hammer and anvil mode to get it to sound loud. That's called 'mastering'."

The only thing gold that comes out of that formula is the liquid that runs down the pants of those that have to listen to the results.

It's not the MBC's fault.

G.
 
I completely agree, I guess I just don't spend enough time on forums anymore, much too busy these days. I have to wonder what propagated this thought process though. Maybe with the last couple of years of newbies being told their mixes aren't good until they are mastered, with the misconception that the MBC is an all-in-one mastering tool, has combined to create this problem. In running my quasi national mastering service, I've noticed a HUUUUUUUUUGE misconception about what mastering is. And I could see this problem coming a couple of years back, when it became the new hot button word in the audio community.
 
:)I agree that the differences that exist in the various implementations of the"MBC" can make a huge difference. I tend to prefer those that use crossovers and gentle slopes ( on the odd occassion that I use them). The sonoformer is a good one .
I also like the Gliss eq tremendously , but it's a dynamic eq.

The difference between the two (MBC vs. dyn eq )is VERY important and lots of MBC's should really be calling themselfs dyn eq as the don't really do any real compression style flavoring.

With all the potential of the latest digital (24 bit , better converters , ect ) it seems that we get allot of strident mixes these days , which is why the analog folks hold on tight ( that and real harmonic saturation and distortion) .

If you like warm sounds and use digital, your probably going to half to learn how to use a compressor and dynamic eq well .

Just my $.02!

:D
:D:D
 
I have to wonder what propagated this thought process though. Maybe with the last couple of years of newbies being told their mixes aren't good until they are mastered, with the misconception that the MBC is an all-in-one mastering tool, has combined to create this problem.
I think that's pretty close to the truth, though I spin it just slightly different. I think that MBCs as mastering devices - and speak of all-in-one mastering tools, including things like finalizers as well - are seen as shortcuts to actually getting the previous stages in the process done right.

Part of the attractiveness of this erroneous belief, I think, is that the hardware and the software required to build a small but decent project studio become cheaper and easier for anybody to get their hands on, but the actual knowledge, training and experience on how to actually use this stuff isn't. We have a cadre of well-intentioned folks with the aduio equivalent of a Formula 1 car in their garages but no experience in driving anything more than the family SUV.

So when you have the *marketing* of these devices to the home recordist as boxes that bump up the ease and quality of self-mastering one's mixes, and the general public winds up with the very attractive idea that the magic boxes are the automatic transmissions (thanks for the analongy mshilarious, soory to steal it here;) ) that can make up in mastering for lack of technique in tracking and mixing.

It's also a natural idea to erroneously think that all they needed to do with their stereos or MP3 players was set the EQ and volume on the stereo playback to get the sound they wanted, so something similar is all that's needed to create the recording from scratch. Just slap together some tracks, and then massage and knead the stereo mix until it sounds how we want.

G.
 
I must admit that I am blissfully ignorant and not bothered by any of the "traditional" tracking issues :D

However, I am very bothered right now by the fact that I can't seem to get a decent EBM type snare sound going right now. ARGH! And the concept isn't hard, some electro snare, mixed in with some noise and/or crash cymbal, distorted, and maybe a bit reverb'd. It's just no worky. I am not happy.

And trust me, it's not because I am not using an MBC.
 
I must admit that I am blissfully ignorant and not bothered by any of the "traditional" tracking issues :D

However, I am very bothered right now by the fact that I can't seem to get a decent EBM type snare sound going right now. ARGH! And the concept isn't hard, some electro snare, mixed in with some noise and/or crash cymbal, distorted, and maybe a bit reverb'd. It's just no worky. I am not happy.

And trust me, it's not because I am not using an MBC.
I am not unhappy anymore. I got the sound I wanted. Ended up combining a 909 snare with a snare/cowbell hit from a break with a truncated crash sample from the NSKit. Put the mess through some very mild distortion in Guitar Rig followed by Guitar Rig's spring reverb. At this point it was almost there, but had some irritation factor to it. So, ended up applying some MBC with only one band active covering frequencies from around 3000-5000Hz, with fast attack, and about 6dB reduction. That did it. Still didn't quite have the EBM-ish thing to it. Loaded it into Battery, and applied Aliasing. BAM!

I am now happy.
 
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Cool Noisewreck. More often than not, it's a single band of MBC that fixes whatever problem leads me to use one. This might be less true if I were an ME working primarily on stereo mixes. For me it's usually a single target that I'm shooting at, a certain frequency or narrow band that needs to be dynamically, not statically tamed.
 
Ended up combining a 909 snare with a snare/cowbell hit from a break with a truncated crash sample from the NSKit. Put the mess through some very mild distortion in Guitar Rig followed by Guitar Rig's spring reverb. At this point it was almost there, but had some irritation factor to it. So, ended up applying some MBC with only one band active covering frequencies from around 3000-5000Hz, with fast attack, and about 6dB reduction.
Sorry...that method violates numerous articles of the Standard Rules for Audio Recording, and those tracks should be immediately erased, or you will face censure and possible fines.

I won't turn you in, but there are numerous "snitches" that monitor this forum.
 
Sorry...that method violates numerous articles of the Standard Rules for Audio Recording, and those tracks should be immediately erased, or you will face censure and possible fines.

I won't turn you in, but there are numerous "snitches" that monitor this forum.
Not sure I quite followed this one :confused:
 
I approach MBC, and EQ as tools in the tool box. If its not the right tool for the job, leave it alone.

There is no more important factor that getting a good take.

The individual instruments all have their own characteristic tonal ranges, and it is about, (for me), bringing ou the best of those tones, not re inventing them.

Properly recorded, they should only need a little shaping on occasion just to give them some comfort in their space in the mix.
 
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