[Help] Time to get rid of the alcove, in with vocal booth!

[technominds]

Ok, so i have an alcove in my room where my bed sits.... the walls surrounding it are all brick from where the house has been extended on.. this makes me think that it would be PERFECT for a vocal booth. I really only need to build one wall, to cover up the gap.. and a door of some sort. The problem with my room is that it is an upper floor and the floor is very prone to bass problems. Anyone downstairs can hear my monitors (Alesis MK2.. a very bassy speaker) even when they are quite low.

I will be putting a desk up against the wall i will be making... and i would like to be able to have my own mix as people record in the booth, without the bass flying through to the mic. What should i be making the wall out of/filling the wall with in order to stop these frequencies being blasted into the booth.

Also, how should i have my speakers placed/ what precautions should i take around the speaker to lessen the bass to the booth, because as i see it... the floor is so weak i dont think it will take much for the bass to come through to the next room.

Should i re-floor the floor in the booth? Maybe put a few layers of carpet to seperate it, or make it float from the floor below it?

The booth is roughly 8ft long and 3ft deep. Is this enough space to make a decent dry vocal recording? Should i be filling it will foam/ leaving area's clean to add a more reflective sound to the vocals?

I dont want to put a window in as i believe it would take the task to a much more difficult level and would be a huge hassle, instead i will probably wire in a camera to a TV on the outside of the booth so i can see in, good idea?

Please answer as much as possible, as i believe this shouldnt be too much of a difficult task. Thank you for any help you may give

[Attatched: A view of the area in question]

 

[technominds]

Ok.. no reply yet... but ive come to the decision that a window would be preffered... only i thing glass will be way to heavy and expensive to install... so i was thinking maybe 3 layers of thick perspects sealed in... would this be suitable soundproof wise?

Anyway, i played around with a few idea's of construction [See Attached Image]

* - The seperate blocks will be filled with either foam or another suitable material
* - A door will be hinged on to the frame, and padded out as much as possible to stop any kind of leaking
* - Frame will then be covered with suitable board to make it seem as one piece..

 

[technominds]

No answer's?

 

[notbradsohner]

why is it divided into seperate blocks on the wall?

 

[technominds]

how else will i make it so the window will fit in? The sections are there as a frame for the window... then i will board it all up as 1 wall...

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

this makes me think that it would be PERFECT for a vocal booth.

Since people below you can hear bass, then your assumption is incorrect. In your case, the floor is a diaphram that will structurally transmit directly into the booth, REGARDLESS of brick walls. Building ONE wall will do literally nothing to stop it. Especially since you want a window too.

only i thing glass will be way to heavy and expensive to install... so i was thinking maybe 3 layers of thick perspects sealed in... would this be suitable soundproof wise?

Soundproof? There is NO such thing. Thats the problem here. You don't have a clue to your db profile, so how would you know what STC class wall to build, even if the floor were NOT a problem in the first place. Or other flanking paths. Your wall rating requirements dictate the rating of the window.
If you don't have any idea of the requirements, how is one supposed to qualify your idea? In this case, yes, the plex will work as a window, and yes it will offfer x db of transmission loss, and yes it will be cheap. But will it match the transmission loss of all the other assemblies..who the fuck knows. PLUS, you have a door. It TOO is part of the assembly. Whats the point of putting in three thick layers of plex, if your door, floor, ceiling or walls are the weak link? Understand?
See, this is the problem with these sort of projects. Half assed guessing in a room that ALREADY has problems with flanking and transmission, AND is on an upper floor, AND you can't build anything to DE-COUPLE the booth.......guess what? You can't predict the isolation value, so whats the point of even trying. Not to mention..even if you make it "soundproof", how ya gonna breath, as "soundproof" is AIRPROOF!

Frankly, you need to understand you have specific limitations in the first place, and these limitations will dictate the isolation construction requirements in relationship to your needs. How do YOU define your transmission loss NEEDS? 20db...30db 100db? And what is the rating of the OTHER 5 partitions(floor, ceiling, and the other 3 walls) See what I mean? ANY partition
is only as good as the weak link. And then, how do you define the performance of these other assemblies in the first place.

* - The seperate blocks will be filled with either foam or another suitable material

Foam is useless for sound transmission loss material. Mass is what you need, however, adding ten tons of mass to that one wall would be useless if the other 5 assemblies allow transmission to occur at a level lower than the rating of the partition you are building. Not only that, but you are putting a DOOR AND A WINDOW in this partition. THEY will be a weak link also.

* - A door will be hinged on to the frame, and padded out as much as possible to stop any kind of leaking

Ok, it will be hinged. How else would you open a door? Padded? For what? Padding does nothing. Only MASS, DECOUPLING, and SEALING via caulk and or seals.

Frame will then be covered with suitable board to make it seem as one piece..

As one piece? I think you need to do some reading. What your drawing looks like is a cabinet. How are you going to hang a heavy door with no STRUCTURAL framing? This drawing does NOT illustrate standard stud framing. It looks like sheetgood construction. Which if it is, good luck. As to the sheithing, code would require a fire rated material since it is in a habitable room. That means drywall. How you going to fasten the sheets at the joints to a 3/4" wide sheetgood edge? I think you need to THINK this out more.

Frankly, you need to rethink this. Since you are ADDING a partition wall to existing space, it has to meet code. Especially if you are in a building with other occupants. I would talk to your local Building Inspection Department first. They will usually give you some guidelines to residential construction limitations, and requirements. But not always. It is up to you to meet code. And here is another caveat. Should you build this with NO permit, you could possibly set yourself up for violations resulting in fines, loss of insurance, or worse should something happen. Remember, this is NOT a fixture. It is adding a partition to a habitable space. Well, I'm out of time. Hope this helps. Sorry if it burst your idea bubble, but better be informed than not in these cases.
fitZ

 

[technominds]

Thanks for the ultimately useless information, everything you have told me i have stated. Im not intending on making the booth SOUNDPROOF, i used the term in a flexible way as in reduction of sound. I think you need to help people instead of mocking them. This was an idea, not a final plan (as stated). And you telling me that i need to re-think the plan is possibly the only decent advice in that essay.

I understand you know your stuff, but you need to think 'will what he has designed be suitable for a vocal booth?" which it could possibly do, instead of pointing out grammatical errors in my proposition.

You have told me my floor is a sonic issue, which ive also stated. Instead of repeatedly telling me this, you could give me advice or a solution to the matter (floating room or some sort of floor insulation for inside the booth).

Thanks for your "wise" comments, but i really think half of it was uneccessary critisism to an un-experienced 17 year old, which is a blow to the head instead of a ladder to help.

 

[notbradsohner]

uh, im gonna leave this thread, but I just wanted to say that Rick is probably one of the most helpful people on this board. Did you see anything in his post that was not true?

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Thanks for the ultimately useless information,

Useless. Typical. You come here asking for approval of YOUR useless designs, and when we tell you the REALITY, you get pissed. I got news for you. You don't have a clue. Thats why I gave you REAL information, not "yes, your idea will work". Of course it will work to an extent. But for what is the question. But in case you think you've got a handle on this...NOT.

'will what he has designed be suitable for a vocal booth?"

Don't you understand English. I did. What you seem to be missing is....HOW SUITABLE...you can't even define the fucking problems let alone the solutions. Why do you think I told you what I did.

which it could possibly do, instead of pointing out grammatical errors in my proposition.

Yes, it could possibly do. So will a frame covered with blankets...if thats what you accept. And what grammatical errors did I point out. Thats total bullshit.

Thanks for your "wise" comments, but i really think half of it was uneccessary critisism to an un-experienced 17 year old

Unneccessary? Is blowing your budget on USELESS construction "unneccessary"? Son, you need to grow up. If anything, I was trying to clue you in to the reality of isolation construction. You don't want to listen to the truth, but expect a lie, then so be it. Typical. I guess what you really want is a FAKE isolation space. You wanna "play" studio huh? Have fun. However, expect "play" isolation then. Adios.

 

[Brad_C]

I can agree here this Rick guy really knows what he is talking about and a lot of people here have helped me alot. Don't ask for advice unless you are willing to take it without complaining about it.

 

[technominds]

There is giving advice, and there is being an arsehole. He decided to step that very thin line.

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

I went out of my way to give you good advice and with politeness. When you came back with your punk attitude is when I released MY attitude. Like most kids who visit here, you want advice, but don't want to really want to hear it. Well, I've wasted my time on you but it will be the last time. I GUARUNTEE it.

 

[bennychico11]

There is giving advice, and there is being an arsehole. He decided to step that very thin line.

just realize that people here on the forum and in the industry can come off sounding pretty attacking about certain things. happens with a ton of audio guys you'll meet. probably has to do with a combination of old age and a lack of social skills

joking aside, I do agree that the tone of his reply could have been construed as condescending and certain phrases could have been better worded so that someone new/young didn't get turned off right away. it is hard sometimes to figure out the tone of voice people were intending the reply to come off as. just get used to people talking shit around here and learn to read between the shit and see the actual good advice.

 

[technominds]

Ok, well im sorry rick, you have offered me good advice in the past and if you do not want to continue to do so then fine. I just believe on this occasion your reply was worded more as an attack than an actual answer to my questions, if thats your way of answering questions (which i know it isnt because you answered on my other thread with an entire different attitude and one that helped me alot) then i think maybe you should change your approach before you scare off a load more other people.

I dont mean to sound like im arguing/causing friction with you, but as benny said, your reply was harsh.

 

[frederic]

sticking my nose in where it doesn't belong....

I don't think his reply was harsh... maybe it was worded a bit sarcastically, but what Rick is telling you is very true.

Mass and Chaulk is by far more effective in controlling sound than foam, padding, blankets, etc.

The ideal vocal booth is where the singer walks inside the booth, the double 4" thick oak doors are closed, and the singer chaulks him/herself in, and the recording engineer chaulks the singer in from the outside.

Windows, doors, air ducts all potentially expose the microphone inside to audio other than from the vocalist (or guitarist, etc).

Basically, like everything else, it's about tradeoffs. My booth for example isn't even close to soundproof. And I'd be stretching the truth if I implied it was an isolation booth, because it's not. But, it does significantly reduce in-booth reflections, and hamper enough of the "machine noise" from the console room the booth is in, to get a good recording.

A lot of Rick's advice is ideal in the sense that by explaining the basic concepts, you can draw upon that to form your own design with the compromises that you have to due to the arrangement of your space, availability of materials, and the construction of your facility to begin with. Not everyone can pour a concrete floating floor, for example, but understanding the advantages of such a structure can help you grasp the concepts of sound isolation that you might make your own design better.

Rick is a little sarcastic, so what. I have yet to see him steer anyone in the wrong direction, and to me, that's most important.

 

[Ptownkid]

When I read that it seemed to be a perfectly honest and helpful reply. Everything he said is true, and you really do need to do A LOT of reading first...

I spent nearly a year reading about studio construction and asking a million questions before I picked up my hammer and got to it, and i still don't know nearly as much as I'd like to.

I'm not being an "arsehole" in the least when i say quite flatly that your idea will not work. There is a lot more to studio construction than you realize and it's not a simple task.

Best of luck and keep readin, you will understand one day.

 

[technominds]

Everyone has valid point, that i take in... except when you guys tell me something straight it goes straight in. Sarcasm doesnt help anyone especially when you are trying to learn, i understand he helped me and i have taken in what he has said but you must undertsand that alot of it was worded as if he was attacking me... or maybe im paranoid, whatever...

Back to the real problem, if anyone has any ide of how to get the floor in the booth slightly more seperated or isolated more, please let me know what options i have.