Help, this mix is killing me

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davekmusic

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Been fighting with this mix off and on for a couple of weeks. Muddy, lifeless, strangled, blah. Ugh.

Today I started from scratch, making the guitars a lot more present, putting the drums, particularly the snare, more upfront, and going even more radical with the eq on the bass guitar (WAY too heavy on the low mids as tracked).

But it still sounds pretty "meh" to me, just brighter.

I normalized and added some Waves L2 compression to this file post mix. But no multiband compression or eq.

Any feedback or thoughts on this are greatly appreciated.

Oh I guess I should warn you, this piece is long(winded), instrumental, and sorta proggy.:rolleyes:

 
I think this is really good. Intro is interesting and pulls you in, well done. I like the guitar tones. There's some cool panning effects. Cool sounding synth lines. The reverb is tastefully done. The crash sounds really fizzy, no crash at all. Was that intentional? The bass line is really awesome, but it's hard to hear, maybe turn it up just a titch. Overall great mix.
 
guitar zero said:
I think this is really good. Intro is interesting and pulls you in, well done. I like the guitar tones. There's some cool panning effects. Cool sounding synth lines. The reverb is tastefully done. The crash sounds really fizzy, no crash at all. Was that intentional? The bass line is really awesome, but it's hard to hear, maybe turn it up just a titch. Overall great mix.
Click to expand...

Thanks.

The crashes don't have much attack and are set back farther than I'd like but unfortunately the ride cymbal is really overpowering if I bring up the overheads any more. I was able to tame the louder ride hits with some with some careful compression in the right overhead.

I'd really like to get the bass up a bit louder, but I keep running into that muddy low end issue. And the top end of the bass sound isn't as pleasing as I'd like so I can't just eq a lot in the 3-5k range. There seems to be happy zone between 600hz and 1k. Have to keep tweaking it...with fresher ears. ;)
 
Don't have much to say, other than it's a great mix! Much better than i've ever done. :P

Though i do agree about the crash being a bit "fizzy", sort of. It doesn't seem to do much in the mix.

Great song! :)
 
Wow ! Very impressive tour-de-force.

Routed the computer output into the stereo. (I have a switch-box and leads set up permanently to do this). Old NAD amp that I've had forever, and some custom built 3 way speakers that I stole off some guy on eBay for $50. Hit the loudness switch to bring the bottom end up, and was blown away.

But, I have a technical question. Out of curiosity, I loaded it into Audacity, and did a plot spectrum. There's a very evident spike at 19KHz, same as one gets when recording off FM radio. Just curious if you were aware of this, and where it came from? One of the synths maybe?
 
I thought generally it was a pretty good mix. Fairly wide and balanced.

My only problem is it's a bit on the thin side. Seemed to lack a little energy in the 300hz - 600hz octave. Maybe a little higher than that too.

OK one other problem. I didn't care all that much for the distorted guitar sound. They were kind of washy - not much distinction on them.. Sounded "digital" too.
 
The mix is nice and clear but its to harsh...it lacks warmth and bottom end...good mix.

I would perhpas eq the whole mix and introduce a bit more low end to the song.
 
Listening again...Its not the mix for the most part however the guitar needs adjusting to add warmth...its a bit harsh sounding...guitar sounds great but it sounds harsh to the ears as well.
 
It sounds like it was mixed by a guitarist. The bass and drums which should be driving this tune are obscured by the guitars and synth.
 
Yeah give those guitars some low-mid and some beefy low end to the bass. Good tune, nice drive and the playing's pretty good.

Joey :):):):)
 
ocnor said:
It sounds like it was mixed by a guitarist. The bass and drums which should be driving this tune are obscured by the guitars and synth.
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Guilty! But I'm also the bassist and keyboard player so I get to argue with myself about what should be loudest. ;)

Many thanks to all who took the time to listen and commented here. It has been very helpful getting your feedback. For one, I hadn't even noticed how fizzy the cymbals were.

As to the comments about that, and the harsh/bright guitar tone, I tend to agree. I overcompensated for the muddy and dull mixes I had going previously. With this mix I added a lot of top end to the guitars and drums to try to get some energy going above 5k.

My room is just dreadful with the bottom end. I've put up some real traps and have decent monitors (dynaudio BM5As) but things are still a mess below 200hz.
 
davekmusic said:
Been fighting with this mix off and on for a couple of weeks. Muddy, lifeless, strangled, blah. Ugh.

Today I started from scratch, making the guitars a lot more present, putting the drums, particularly the snare, more upfront, and going even more radical with the eq on the bass guitar (WAY too heavy on the low mids as tracked).

But it still sounds pretty "meh" to me, just brighter.

I normalized and added some Waves L2 compression to this file post mix. But no multiband compression or eq.

Any feedback or thoughts on this are greatly appreciated.

Oh I guess I should warn you, this piece is long(winded), instrumental, and sorta proggy.:rolleyes:

Click to expand...

I think the ideas are fantastic and the tones are there! Kind of like this cross between tool and Satriani.

I think the issue may be a matter of going a little more "aggressive" and present with the drums. Possibly the entire mix. That impact if you will. I learned a long time ago that if you can get the foundation sounding stellar, the track suddenly takes on a whole new "wow dynamic".

That can mean getting the drummer to play super aggressive to hit the preamps and compressors harder (and just right) while having an idea of what tones you're really trying to get out of them. Then it's a matter of getting the bass to mesh with that while maintaining a good tone, power and the clarity it needs to enhance the guitars. Once that's groovin, it's pretty cool to see that you're mixing from a relatively solid reference point.

On your track, most parts sound like they where played with a great dynamic, however, it sounds like that gets lost on some of the softer stuff. You can almost hear a change in tone.

Perhaps timed and controlled stereo compression on the drums or the entire track for effect might be your missing link. And not something like the L2. The L2 wasn't really designed with the controls to shape good stereo compression. It does well to make things super damn loud. A good buss compressor can really "glue" your mix together and get things pumping in unison. Something with attack, threshold, ratio and release controls that shouldn't compromise your stereo image. Light touches should suffice.

Just my two cents
 
Pretty cool. Sounds a lot like Dream Theater or Rush.

The guys who said the bass could stand to be beefed up are probably right. Otherwise, no nits from me.
 
HAHAH took the words out of my mouth someone .. er.. fingers...

Its not hard to tell the composer is a great guitar player.

It sounds pretty good, but the guitars are too prominent. ID spend a bit more time making the the other non-guitar parts, as polished as the guitars.

Bass needs some beef. so i guess im going +1 that as well.


Really great song though.
 
Here is an updated mix I did tonight. More bass and drums in this one and many other tweaks. Sound any better? Hopefully doesn't sound like so much of a guitarist's mix. ;)

 
That mix has better balance. IMO the kick and bass need a bit more punch and the toms seem a little weak during the fills.
 
I can totally hear this as a lead in for a suspense/thriller/action movie, as the credits are flashed on the screen over some video montage. You should shop it around and see if anyone is interested.
 
Pretty damn cool. I think that it's really well done. Definitely something to learn from...
 
I love it, but the mix could probably be tweaked to sound even better. I'd start from scratch and get the Drums and Bass EQ'd and grooving together a bit more. To me the drums have no depth, they're just there filling a void. The bassline is awesome. I'm a bass player, I play constant grooves like that. Great playing IMO.
 
So thanks to all the feedback here I finally have a mix I don't cringe at. This version has the bass and kick pretty far out front driving the piece but even on my car system, which is very low end heavy, it doesn't sound muddy. I think the overall aesthetic is reasonably pleasing, at least for a record engineered in a basement. And I'm in the ball park of a couple of the reference CDs I'm using.

I actually tried what Mr. Clean suggested and started over with a fresh drum sound taking some new approaches trying to get a more organic and less processed sound. But that didn't work as well as I would have liked so I went back and just tweaked the last mix to try to punch up the drum sound a bit more.

Post mix I added a very limited amount of room reverb, multiband compression and L2. I probably could go hotter on this but I'm not wild about that super compressed sound everyone is going for these days.


(sorry, forgot to trim the space at the start so song starts 10 seconds in)

I'm a little concerned that I've buried the guitars and keyboards a little too much. The guitars sound a bit small in some sections depending on the listening environment. Musically the guitars and keys are important for providing provide variations in timbre, melody, and harmony over the very repetitive bass line.

In any event I think I'm going to move on and work on some of the other songs before coming back to this one and making any final adjustments. I think this is going to end up being the most troublesome mix on the record as it is the most dense piece. The other songs have a lot more air in them.
 
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