Help solve my old recording mystery!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Scinx
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Scinx

Mechanical Monkey
This is a question/puzzle Im been trying to solve for a while now.

Backround:
I am using CEP2 or Cubase SX (depending on what I feel like for the day...Im attempting to transition to SX as Adobe got CEP (and since CEP doesnt use MIDI). I have a Soundcraft M12 and some outboard gear. Soundcard is a Delta1010

Question: How do I add effects from outboard gear to a track and "rerecord" it?

Summary (using an example):
I record a drum on Track 1 on the computer. However, I decide I want to add compression to it (with an RNC). I figure that I must send it out to a channel (lets say Channel 6) on the board, have the compresser hanging out in the insert, run the signal thru it (aka. hit play). At the same time, I figure I need a cable going from the direct out (on Channel 6) into the souncard. I also need the software armed to record this new fangled drum sound on Track 2.
So in theory I have a signal coming from Track 1, being sent into the board, manipulated with effects, and going out thru the Track 1 direct out. The signal then travels into the soundcard and "should" record onto Track 2 which has been set to record.

Problem:
Whenever I attempt to record this processed track - I get nothing - just a dead line. How do I correct this? What is flawed in my logic? Or am I just being a stupid orangutan...
How do you guys manipulate tracks? Is it all done during mixdown?

I want to be able to use EQs, Compression, etc. while listening to the track after its recorded so that I can play with a raw sound. I then want to be able to record that track.

Thanks for the help!
 
Isn't the DIR positioned BEFORE the insert? I mean, if you use the DIR, isn't the insert bypassed so to speak? All the same, you ought to be able to get an unprocessed signal back to the computer.
I combine outboard gear with a computer myself, and have a similar setup. I do it the same way as you, 'cept that I do not route the signal back to the computer. I mean, destructive editing seems quite pointless to me :p
If I wanted to, I would use a bus-out on the mixer back to the computer(mainouts, subouts, whatever), and let the signal travel through the whole channelstrip.
But I don't, so in other words, I apply all those effects during mixdown.
 
ragata said:
Isn't the DIR positioned BEFORE the insert?
Click to expand...


I suppose it might be. I didnt look at the schematic to solve this problem.

I mean, destructive editing seems quite pointless to me :p
Click to expand...

It technically isnt destructive. As I see it - I have the unedited original and the copy which is "destroyed" :D
The reason Id like to do this is because I only have 1 compresser and would rather be able to compress each instead of buying many (which I would have to do if I compressed during mixdown).

So basically what you do is record everything and then play with all your equipment till it sounds right and then mix it down into a final track?
My last question is - if you have, say, a compressor and an EQ and want to use both on a track during mixdown - how do you do this? I figure it might involve sidechaining - but Im not sure howd you do this with one insert point.

Thanks so much man! Ive been going crazy with this for a while. Although I guess technically my question isnt solved as to why I get nothing recording...Do you compress during tracking at all? If not - do you have like 6 compressors or something so that you can do kick, snare, vocal, guits, bass, etc.?

Thanks again!!
 
First you need to isolate the problem. Where is the signal being interrupted?

Is there audio coming out of the DI?

Is the soundcard input not activated in the software?

Try looping the audio from the SC output back to the input to see if you get a signal. Once you get that working then just put the compressor into the path. You don't really even need to use the mixer for that.
 
Thats a good point Tex. However, if I skip the board - then I am also skipping my monitors.
How do you usually do things? Record everything at once, take tracks and put them thru multiple effects while mixing down? Or do you do one at a time?
 
"So basically what you do is record everything and then play with all your equipment till it sounds right and then mix it down into a final track?"

Yep, pretty much.

"My last question is - if you have, say, a compressor and an EQ and want to use both on a track during mixdown - how do you do this? I figure it might involve sidechaining - but Im not sure howd you do this with one insert point."

I would send the signal to the comp., then route the compressed signal(ie. from the comp.) into the eq and from the eq back to the mixer, all done via the patchbay. Seems to work so far :)
Also, applying a comp via the aux-busses can be pretty nifty if you simply want to add a little more power and still retain the original sound. Useable on the mainmix, for example.

"Do you compress during tracking at all? If not - do you have like 6 compressors or something so that you can do kick, snare, vocal, guits, bass, etc.?
"

Sometimes I compress bass during tracking, but usually that's not necessary. I am a DAW user though, so I use a combination of outboard gear and plugins. Not necessarily 'cause it sounds better, but simply because that's the way I like to work. I hate trying to tweak, say, an EQ with my mouse.

I really cannot say why you don't get any signal at all. You'll have to resolve to trial and error I suppose...;)
 
Do you find your patchbay absolutely necessary? I dont have a patchbay and would rather not add the extra layer.

I couldnt agree with you more about not liking to use a mouse to do EQ and things like it. I sometimes wish I didnt have a computer and was just recording onto tape - but then I remember editing and Im back at square one. :D

"I would send the signal to the comp., then route the compressed signal(ie. from the comp.) into the eq and from the eq back to the mixer, all done via the patchbay."

What input would you go into coming out of the EQ given that the insert is taken to get outbound to the compressor?

Thanks Ragata
 
What input would you go into coming out of the EQ given that the insert is taken to get outbound to the compressor?

Ok.
On the patchbay I've got jacks for, say, channel 2 insert send, and one for insert return. So, I would patch the send jack to the input of the comp(i.e RNC IN, on the patchbay). From that I'd connect the the RNC OUT to the EQ INPUT, and from the EQ OUTPUT to the channel 2 insert return jack. 'Course, I do not have physical ins sends/returns on the mixer, only one jack with a tip/ring connection(I'm swedish. I may be a bit unclear sometimes :), which is split into the patch.

Do you find your patchbay absolutely necessary?

No, but it sure feels more convienient.

I sometimes wish I didnt have a computer and was just recording onto tape
Hell yes, that'd be something. I'd really like to get a hold of an adat and sync it to the computer. I have the motu2408 mkII and I think they would really like eachother :)
 
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