Help setting up my first home studio

[AlexxMarsh]

ok so I really have no idea how to set up a home studio. I have a band consisting of 2 vocalists, 2 guitars, 1 bass guitar, and one set of drums. So it looks like I need 7 total tracks. Basically what I want to accomplish is to be able to connect everything to a mixer get the sound calibrated and then find a way to simply record the whole thing. This is where i am confused. On musiciansfriend.com they have a series of standalone mixers for good prices...then they have the multitrack recorders which seem to be the all in one option and then they have a computer interface option. My question is what option would you use if you were using a standalone unpowered mixer? In other words once I connect everything to the mixer where should it go from there to actually record? I know that I will have it connected to some monitors/headphones, but I am confused about what device to use for the recording. If you could please help me find a simple solution to this I would appreciate it.

Also am I correct in assuming that I will be recording each track individually and then mixing them after? You can tell im not very experienced just by that question but I have to ask. There is so much I have to learn about this lol.....

 

[grimtraveller]

There is a learning curve that is steep and can be frustrating.......but it is ultimately worth it and is damn good fun. If you had asked this question 25 years ago, it would have been fairly straightforward to answer because the number of options and combinations was pretty limited [though no less powerful]. There are now so many ways you could go in each field, purely analog, purely digital or a combination of the two. But, you've asked and I hope quite a few of the home recordists will reply because whatever I tell you can only be the tip of the tip of the iceberg !

Personally, I'd go for the standalone multitrack recorder. I'm biased of course, but I'm not hot with computers {not for recording, anyway} and I'm au fait with analog portastudios so the digital standalone multitrack, which I'm getting into more and more, represents the best of both worlds. You get the hands on simplicity of the portastudio combined with the editing direction of the computer.There are recorders by Boss, Yamaha, Fostex, Zoom, Tascam, Akai, Korg, Echo, Alesis, Roland - all have their pros and cons. With the multitrack, you may not even need a mixer although depending on how many tracks it is, they can be really useful for drums {for example, if you had an 8 track, then with a mixer, you could put anything from 3 mics thru it and mic your drums and send that to 2 tracks of the multitrack. But we're getting slightly ahead of ourselves}.
Whatever you decide to do, it pays to read whatever manual you end up with, do some research, ask questions but don't desire spoonfeeding and above all, experiment and try things. Don't be discouraged if your initial attempts at recording don't sound wonderful. This takes time and practice and dedication, even if it's "just" a hobby. I've included a link to an article that may prove useful.

http://www.tweakheadz.com/multi_track_recorders.htm



If you don't go the digital multitrack route, just remember, you still have plenty of other options.

 

[rayc]

I'm on the side of desktop PC, not online or at least well secured form online probs, recording.
You'll need an interface that'll cope with your recording - IF you want to record you band live you should look at about 5 inputs for the drums (OH L & R, Kick, snare above & maybe snare below) as well as the input for the other folk. IF you're planning to record in small sub sections (rhythm section) (vocals) (lead & ODS) or one at a time you won't need so many inputs & so a 5 would be easy to manage.
I do own an 8 track stand alone recorder (a Roland Disc lab) but the PC is far more flexible.
With an external mioxer it all depends on the number of out lines. I have two 6 line mixers but they both have only stereo/2 line out & no through lines. My 4 track cassette recorder has stereo mixer as well as 4 straight through lines which is great for when I feel like doing the initial recording to tape & then popping all 4 tracks up to my PC.
Mate, there are a squillion ways to do what you want to do - all variables like ability, time, budget & recording space need to be considered though.

 

[Wack]

Hello, welcome to HR! I to am new to recording (just got into recording literately 2 weeks ago). What I've figured out so far from what your asking is that, you need a mixer, you can use a computer with an interface, get a self powered mixer board which can store the songs on it and depending on the amount of money spent produce the CD itself, or put it on a flash drive and onto a computer and burn it. You can record individually as you were saying, or depending on the amount of channels that can be ran at once on the mixer, you can do it live, but on separate channels.

 

[J-Lane]

Like the previous posts said you have so many different options but I think if you have some experience using a computer you might want to look into buying an interface (a device that you use to input the sound from your mics to your computer) and an inexpensive DAW (Digital Audio Workstation a.k.a. a recording program for your computer). I'm not very knowledgeable on what interface is the best bang for the buck so I recommend searching the forum and seeing what other people might suggest. As for the DAW there are a ton of programs out there. The one I hear about the most is Pro Tools which I have used and it works great but you have to use specific interfaces with the program that I think is typically sold as a bundle. I currently use a program called Reaper. It is only $60 and is fully featured and relatively easy to learn but make sure you look into what other programs have to offer before you decide. Here are a couple of links:

Pro Tools

Reaper

The biggest thing to ask yourself is what you intend to do with the music you record. If you want it to sound professional you will likely end up like the rest of us spending endless night trying to understand what it just doesn't sound right. The best thing you can do is buy a book about home recording and search these forums for any questions you might have. Just keep in mind that Home Recording can get very expensive but it's probably the funnest hobby in the world. Good luck and post some of your music when you get something recorded.

 

[tmix]

Also am I correct in assuming that I will be recording each track individually and then mixing them after? QUOTE]

Recording groups have been done as simple as a live stereo (2 track) recording, to recording hundreds of seperate tracks.

if you want the option of tracking each instrument on its own seperate track and mixing later, the question you need to answer is:

"how many seperate tracks do I need to track at one instant"

If you are going to record one person at a time you may only need a recorder or computer interface with 2 inputs and outputs and a multi track program that lets you record 16+ discrete tracks to which you mix later on the computer or stand alone recorder.

If you are going to record a drum set and want seperate control over Kick,Snare, toms ect you have to have a seperate input for each item you want to record at the same time.
You can not blend something ahead of time and then re-seperate it in the computer to mix differently.
It is akin to scrambling eggs and then later deciding to want to unscramble them and only use the egg whites.

 

[AlexxMarsh]

ok guys I would like to first thank you all for the great responses!

I see that my origional post probably implied that I wanted to record a full band all at once. This is not the case as we can all lay down our tracks one at a time so I dont need to record any simultaneous tracks.

Am I correct in asuming that if I got a digital 8 track like the Tascam one on musiciansfriend.com for $249 I would be able to record my guitar with an amp on one track and then be able to play that track back through some headphones and add the vocals?

My main issue is I need to hear what im actually recording as I play it. I also would like to hear the tracks I already recorded playing on the headphones as I add the vocals bass etc... Would an 8 track digital recorder accomplish this for me? So say I get a guitar track recorded and the drums recorded. Can I then hear these two tracks play as I add the vocals? I need to basically hear what I already recorded plus what I am recording at the time. Hope that makes sense. If this will work like I hope then I suppose the digital recorder option is really perfect for me.

BTW I should make it clear that this is merely for a demo tape. We have played live shows and people are always asking us for a tape of our music but we have none. So basically I want a rough demo to send to venues so they can hear us on tape. Maybe to pass around to friends and family as well. So I am not really looking to make a professional finished recording just something that captures our sound. For the drums my plan was to use a condensor mic and basically position it over the drum kit. Maybe if that sounds too terrible I will attempt to mic up each individual drum. Probably would need to run that through a mixer to get the drums on a single track. Or would that be like you said Tmix would I be trying to unscramble some eggs and make them into only egg whites? good example by the way...lol

Ok another question that has me a bit confused. Can I plug my guitar into the amp and then use the headphone out on the amp to run to the recorder? Or do i need to go straight from my guitar to the recorder? Same thing for the vocals can I run the mic through the PA and into the recorder or should I just go direct with the mic to the recorder?

Thank you all for taking the time to answer questions for a noob like me

 

[Zeroquag]

Ok another question that has me a bit confused. Can I plug my guitar into the amp and then use the headphone out on the amp to run to the recorder? Or do i need to go straight from my guitar to the recorder? Same thing for the vocals can I run the mic through the PA and into the recorder or should I just go direct with the mic to the recorder?

For vocals, I would plug straight into the input on a digital recorder (or mixer if you go that route). For guitar, you can try it both ways. If you really like your guitar amp you can put a mic in front of the speaker and record that way, or if you like the effects in your recorder and it has a guitar input you can plug straight into it to record a clean signal, then add effects to taste. This way you can change the effects later. Try both if you can

Some basic things to spend some time learning about: the signal path (how the sound "flows" from the instrument to the speakers or recorder), different types of input levels (mic, line, instrument), and how to set gain/recording levels.

I'm still a newb myself so take my answers with a grain of salt, but that's been my experience. And good luck!

 

[grimtraveller]

Am I correct in asuming that if I got a digital 8 track like the Tascam one on musiciansfriend.com for $249 I would be able to record my guitar with an amp on one track and then be able to play that track back through some headphones and add the vocals?

You are correct to assume this.

My main issue is I need to hear what im actually recording as I play it. I also would like to hear the tracks I already recorded playing on the headphones as I add the vocals bass etc... Would an 8 track digital recorder accomplish this for me? So say I get a guitar track recorded and the drums recorded. Can I then hear these two tracks play as I add the vocals? I need to basically hear what I already recorded plus what I am recording at the time. Hope that makes sense. If this will work like I hope then I suppose the digital recorder option is really perfect for me.

Yeah ! I'd be shocked if such a machine existed anywhere in the known universe that didn't enable you to hear what you've recorded while you overdub. That is the key to recording over the last 60 years.

For the drums my plan was to use a condensor mic and basically position it over the drum kit. Maybe if that sounds too terrible I will attempt to mic up each individual drum. Probably would need to run that through a mixer to get the drums on a single track.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiFOD1EeKhQ

http://www.blaxploitation.com/drums/

Have a look at these two, the Recorderman method and the Glyn Johns method. They are only two of a number of ways of recording drums but they are important in that they concentrate on getting a great sound with minimal (2 and 4) mics. You might be better off with a combination of hanging a condenser 'over' (check recorderman) the kit to pick up everything and having a dynamic on the kick. You can use up two tracks on your recorder or alternatively, combine (bounce) those two tracks, once recorded, to one track.

Ok another question that has me a bit confused. Can I plug my guitar into the amp and then use the headphone out on the amp to run to the recorder? Or do i need to go straight from my guitar to the recorder? Same thing for the vocals can I run the mic through the PA and into the recorder or should I just go direct with the mic to the recorder?

You can use the headphone out on the amp to run straight into the recorder or you could go straight into the recorder. Debate will rage forever as to whether that 'direct' sound will ever be as nice a tone as putting a mic next to the amp and recording that. It's all personal opinion and sometimes, you may have to go direct. If you can mic the amp, try it and compare it with the direct sound and see which one floats your boat. For vocals, whether you go straight into the recorder depends on whether you use a dynamic or condenser mic because if you use a condenser, you'll need this thing called phantom power, which you'll find on a pre-amp or some mixers. It's what powers a condenser mic {although some work with a 9v battery} and the condensers work with XLR cables. If you use a dynamic mic, you can go directly into your recorder.

 

[Richard Monroe]

Yo Alexx! Be advised that the 8-track recorder you are referencing can only record 2 simultaneous tracks. That is inadequate for drums, which will require at least 4 simultaneous tracks, and it is not uncommon to use more. Aside from that, bass is often recorded with the drums, so you really need 8 simultaneous inputs. For cheap and versatile, and as a good learning tool, consider this:

http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=60335&Category=Recorders

This is a unit that combines the features of a standalone recorder and those of a computer interface. It can record 8 tracks simultaneously, or up to 16 by overdubbing, and can download those tracks to a computer for further processing. Or- it can record direct to the computer, and you can use whatever software you want (except pro tools, mentioned above, which this unit does not support).

Whenever you are dealing with a digital recorder or interface, the first question to ask is-how many simultaneous tracks can it record? You need a minimum of four for bare bones, and more will simplify your life. With this unit, you can learn the basics of a standalone digital recorder *and* the basics of computer recording, and go with the one you prefer. In the end, you'll have to at least dump the finished mix into a computer to burn to CD, so you might as well accept the nice computer as a tool early on.

You will also need a few specialized mics, although the live mics you use will do some of it.
Start spooking around on the studio building and display forum. The acoustic space in which you record will have a *huge* impact on the finished product. I cannot emphasize that enough. Before you are done, expect to spend a lot more money than you ever thought. Welcome to the club.-Richie

 

[dum6sh1t]

I would definitely go with the stand alone mixer and an interface option. The reason being is because you can then use that stand alone mixer for live applications. Also using an interface as opposed to a Portastudio, it opens everything up a lot more since you can see all tracks on your monitor as opposed to trying to use a jog dial. Plus, most interfaces come with the software which will include compression and effects. A stand alone mixer makes life easy and will allow you to do much more during rehearsals without having to use a ton of other equipment. FYI, get a mixer that provides phantom power.

 

[grimtraveller]

Yo Alexx! Be advised that the 8-track recorder you are referencing can only record 2 simultaneous tracks. That is inadequate for drums, which will require at least 4 simultaneous tracks, and it is not uncommon to use more. Aside from that, bass is often recorded with the drums, so you really need 8 simultaneous inputs. For cheap and versatile, and as a good learning tool, consider this:

http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=60335&Category=Recorders

This is a unit that combines the features of a standalone recorder and those of a computer interface. It can record 8 tracks simultaneously, or up to 16 by overdubbing, and can download those tracks to a computer for further processing. Or- it can record direct to the computer, and you can use whatever software you want (except pro tools, mentioned above, which this unit does not support).

Whenever you are dealing with a digital recorder or interface, the first question to ask is-how many simultaneous tracks can it record? You need a minimum of four for bare bones, and more will simplify your life. With this unit, you can learn the basics of a standalone digital recorder *and* the basics of computer recording, and go with the one you prefer. In the end, you'll have to at least dump the finished mix into a computer to burn to CD, so you might as well accept the nice computer as a tool early on.

My apple-urges {apologies!}. I forgot to mention the simultaneous tracks bit. Richard is bang on for that one {thanks mate !}. I know you say you'll do everything one at a time but having at least 4 as he points out will make life so much easier. Not easy, but easier.

 

[AlexxMarsh]

wow I love you guys.

Seriously you answered everything I wanted to know and then added some things I would have neglected to even think about.

About the guitar:
Do most digital recorders/mixers have amp effects built into them? So if I were to just run the guitar right to the mixer do most of them have an option to distort it or add reverb?

So for vocals I need to make sure that the input has phantom power on the mixer so I can power my mic. I already own this mic here http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.co...ragm-Cardioid-Condenser-Microphone?sku=270620 . I have owned this for a year now I know it requires phantom power to operate, right now we basically use this mic for practicing live even though I know its supposed to be a studio mic and it works pretty good so hopefully it will go good with the mixer I decide to buy whichever that may be. I am definetly eyeing the mixer Richard Monroe suggested.

Talking to you guys gets me a little excited about this whole home studio thing. More and more I am thinking about how awesome it would be to go all out and get a full studio created. I could see myself spending my time just playing around with all the options. Could be really entertaining and a fun hobby. Might get very expensive and already just paying for live equiptment to keep my band able to practice is costing a LOT. Might be worth it though. I would love to see/hear what kind of setups you guys got and how much it cost you. I could see myself spending about $1000 realistically on this setup if its worth it. Maybe more in the future to add things on as i go.
Would love any suggestions on how to budget out $1000 for a starter home studio. Basically my goal is to be able to capture how we sound live and put that on a cd.

Sorry again that I am so lame when it comes to knowledge of this kind of stuff. All I know about recording is what I basically assumed on my own..lol Glad to know that monitoring has been established for 60 years .

Edit: I am not sure I want to just put a mic infront of the amp. The only reason I dont want to do that is because I am afraid it will be less quality than a direct line. I really dont want to get any room noise or anything recorded on the guitar track.

 

[Richard Monroe]

I am not sure I want to just put a mic in front of the amp. The only reason I don't want to do that is because I am afraid it will be less quality than a direct line. I really don't want to get any room noise or anything recorded on the guitar track.[/QUOTE]

Education 101 continues. Most recording of electric guitar is done with amps and *mics*. In recent years, the concept of amp modeling for recording direct (often called "DI", short for direct injection) has become more popular, and the technology has improved over time. Most engineers still prefer to record electric guitars with mics. For 50 years or so, we have become used to the sound of *air* smacking into a mic. This is very difficult, if not impossible, to duplicate in a DI setup.

Yes, most recording software and standalone recorders have effects (FX), including amp modeling for electric guitars, but they are more commonly used as a sort of sketch pad. They are very handy for practicing late at night, or when you don't want to wake up the baby. Studios tend to use smaller amps than what you see on stage, because you want to be able to crank up the amp without reaching the reflective limits of the room, or making yourself deaf. Sometimes an isolation box (iso box) is used, so that the amp or extension speaker can be placed in a box that reduces the external volume level, and helps to reduce mic bleed.

Here's the good news- The mics that are favored for recording amps are often cheap mics, even in major studios. The Shure SM57 ($100 new/$50 used) has been a standard for years. My best advice- experiment. That's the real point of your first recording rig. Try out whatever amp modeling you have available *and* a mic, and see what you prefer. Sound quality *is* the point, but why get a machine that you can plug all these mics into, and then be afraid to use mics? If you want to get good at recording, you will need to use mics, and you can't learn to use them without using them. An interesting point- while the vast majority of engineers prefer mics to any kind of DI setup for electric guitar, bass is recorded DI more often than not. It just works.

Don't worry- once you get whatever recording rig you wind up with, we'll begin to help you to build your mic cabinet. Mics are tools, and different jobs often require different tools.
I'm not saying not to use DI. I'm saying to use your ears, and see what sounds good, instead of worrying about what *might* sound bad. We'll be there for you, right up to the divorce.-Richie