Help recording guitars

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iank177

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We are recording guitars in our project studio, the center of which is a Roland VS-880. WE are trying to get a very full distrotion sound, yet everything we try comes out sounding thin and hollow. We have tried a couple different mics (57, 58, and other randoms) and numerous placements. The friends of ours that we are recording have a very heavy guitar sound, they want a full sound much like that of Slayer. (crunchy, thick). So any suggestions on Mics to use, room placement, etc? Thanks in advance!

-Ian
 
first, put the guitar amp in a small dead room like a closet that has clothes hanging in it. you should probably use a dynamic mic like a SM57, although you can get some killer sounds with a large diaphragm condenser mic. put the mic right against the grille cloth or close to it (within 1") and 2" in from the outside of the speaker, angled slightly towards the center. you can use some compression (around 3:1). Another thing is adjust the eq on the amp so it sounds good when you play it back.
 
Multiple tracks, multiple tracks, and multiple tracks. Layer the guitar parts as many times as you can. I would say for a thick sound you need 3 or more tracks for each rhythm guitar since you aren't currently getting what you want. If the guys playing can nail the stuff, you can try doubling up the lead parts as well for a similar effect.

The mic placement that Cave Dweller mentioned is a good place to start from. Get the sound you want in the room first, then keep moving the mic around until you get the sound you are hearing in the room. It's sometimes taken me hours upon hours over several days to get the right mic placement for a track. I'd also stick with just the SM57 to start with and see what you can get out of it.
 
I agree with cave.About 1" from foam surround angled in about 45 degrees.SM57 about an inch from the paper.

Tom
 
Went through the same problem and one thing to keep in mind is the gear. Slayer uses Marshalls cranked to 10 or at least Kerry does. Many metal bands forget about the mids. Yes, most heavy bands have a scooped mids sound but trust me. Record with lots of mids. That is the key to getting the in your face sound.

YOu may also try miking the cab and using a hughes and kettner redbox and combining the sounds. this kind of trick is useful for not having to track the rhythm again because the signal gets delayed from the mic and creates an offset of timing that gives that thick sound you talked about.

Hope this helps.
Ps. Saw Slayer live with Machine Head and Both Kerry and Jeff were using redboxes to the c0nsole. The sound was great.
 
you gotta be kiddin...

Slayer uses redboxes?

honest?

goddamn. well all i wanted to say is use your mids a sm57 on axis with the core and about 2" away from the center. i get a killer sound like that and don't even have to double... (imagine when i get a multitracker... i'm gonna be the ruling shredmaster hahahahahaa;) )

but seriously, slayer uses redboxes?

nah...?

greetz guhlenn ;)
 
yeah they do. I saw them live and seen both of them have'em. IN fact if you go to the hughes and kettner site they have them as official users. When you get to thier name it states they only use the redboxes by h&k.

I have a friend of mine that says he saw Rich Ward from Stuck Mojo using them too. NOt too sure about that one. I met him once and he was real cool and told me all about the gear he used...but he never mentioned the redbox.
 
Slayer playing through a Fender Tweed would be interesting!
 
slayer in mtv's unplugged session...

that'ld be cool too

lol

guhlenn
 
Instead of killing yourself with mic selection, placement, and rooms choice, try

a POD, J Station, Yamaha gtr direct red box (I forgot the name) or even better a Sansamp PSA-1. In fact, if MARS is near you, you can buy it, try it, and return in 30 days for money back. Slimey but doable.

For more $ get a Palmer speaker simulator between your amp and cab or just the amp and run direct to the board.
 
Along with the other advice (especially multiple tracks), you might also experiment with cutting the low end on the guitar tracks. I know it sounds big and beefy when soloed, but it can turn to mud without the "big" sound when everything gets mixed in.
 
Right on with that. Alot of lowend may be very tempting but once placed with everything else you will not be happy with the results. It sounds like a total useless glob of distorted lowend.

The Pod is great.I love it for recording...it is very useful. I do however think the real thing is unbeatable. Ive heard demos done with the Pod that have fooled me many times but I still think If campared with the real deal you could hear the difference. Try mixing the POd with the real mic'd amp. I bet that sounds nice.

Another important point is presence. you should really try to get your sounds through the monitors and not your cab. I know i use to tend to really crank that presence up quite a bit before. This will make your tone sound so thin and weak. Can't stress it enough...get your sound thru the monitors. YOu'll be happy you did. I noticed when I did the the 3rd time in the studio my settings were totally changed. I had an increase in mids and lowered lows and presence and gain.
 
simulation isn't the real thing. i like the peeps and squeels of a speaker in pain...

greetz guhlenn ;)
 
something cool you may or may not have noticed about the pod is that you CAN make it sound like a speaker is in pain, match the 8" cab with a cranked soldano head and listen to the speaker start to distort as you crank the drive up, just thought that was cool. as for the main subject, with that multi tracker, if you don't have a lot of outboard equipment to delay and the band can't hit an double track, just copy the rhythm track to another channel, edit its start time by a few milliseconds, and pan on to around 7, the other to around 4 or so. even with the exact same sound, your ears hear two different things going on and sum the density, this is a great trick to thicken that tractor driving through a mall type roar without drastically affecting the volume or your guitar tracks or your overall volume. good luck.
ps, you also might try having someone double a track playing through a little bitty amp/cab with the volume at 10, tom morello from rage does this religiously and it really sounds great when mixed properly.
Capt. Snazzy
 
ok. i didn't/don't know. and don't believe we're talking 'bout the same thing. I'm talking bout actual peeps pops roars and shit that comes from tubes -speakers etc. not the gain/overdrive issue...


greetz guhlenn;)

ps good tip about the little amp trick! just don't crank the volume or it'll sound too muddy. (at least; my little fender frontman sounds ok at about 5 but is a big puddle of undefinable noise at 10)
 
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