help recording guitar

M

moonstation2000

New member
i have a mac g4 with digital performer 3.11 hooked up to a motu 828 mk ii (also tried a motu 896hd).
sounds ok on drums and vocals but my guitar sound is horrible, way too low, missing high end, muddy etc.
i have tried recording all sorts of ways.
1) mics on amps to mixer to motu
2) mics on amp to moto
3) guitar directly to motu

when setup as in 1 guitar sounds fine in mixer headphones, guitar also sounds fine through amps to my ears.

should i be plugging the guitar directly into the motu and then adding effects later?
 
If you're amp sounds great in the room and great in the headphones, but crappy in the mix, then my guess is you're guitar tone is wrong for the song. You have some other elements in the mix competeing for space.

Remember: when a guitar player is jamming alone in the bedroom he can adjust his tone any way he wants, which often means lots of meaty bass or scooped mids. However, when you put a guitar into a mix with lots of other instruments all competing for sonic space you have to make concession in tone for the sake of the whole. This usually means that your guitar is going to be limited to a lot of mid content, becuase the kick and bass have everything below, say, 100K, and high-hats/cymbals/keys are eating up the high end. The toughest thing is working it around other mid-range instruments like snare and vocals. Usually if you solo a guitar in a good mix it will sound funny on it's own, and that's fine as long as it's sitting in the mix well.


got mojo?
www.voodoovibe.com
 
yhanks for the reply, but the question was a little different. my guitar doesn't just sound bad in the mix, it sounds bad recorded all by itself. it just doesn't record the way it sounds live or the way i hear it in the mixer headphones.
i'm using 3 mics on two amps. an sm57 right on the grill of a peavey classic 30, a sm58 on my roland cube, and a rode nt1 ~5 ft away for overall mix of the two.
 
a couple of thoughts

how do each of the individual tracks sound? do they sound better solo'd than they do when all are playing? if so, you've prolly got a phase issue somewhere.

another thought (without knowing your space, where the amps are in relation to each other, etc) is that you've got some sort of comb filtering going on in the room between the two amps and the 3 mics. combined with phase issues (which could also happen depending where the mics and amps are placed in relation to each other--the NT1 5ft away capturing both amps concerns me--about both it and the relation of the two shures to each other), this could make ones tracks quite anemic. my guess is that you've got the two amps pretty much next to each other and you're playing though em both at the same time, eh?

if so, here's a thought--only play through one amp at a time, and if you have to have the sound of both amps, just record two tracks, one with each amp and pan em opposite each other. the combination of amps and the variations in each take should, generally speaking, give one a nice, fat sound. of course, 4-6 tracks of guitar (counting close and far mics on each amp) *should* be pretty damn fat. :D

it also could be an issue with your mic placement. how are you aiming the mics when they're against the amp grilles? are they pointed more towards the middle of the cone or the edge? how are they angled--pointing straight in or angled 45degrees? every minor change will affect your sound. experiment and find what works best. this WILL take some time. especially if you're working solo (engineering while playing).

it could be your room. what's it like and where do the amps sit in it? are some locations better than others? or you might have the wrong mics for the job. or the wrong guitar for the amp. or the wrong tone for the song (as aaron noted)....and remember, that a little distortion goes a LONG, LONG way when recording.....pile it on and you'll likely just get mud. you need a lot less than you need playing a gig.

it could also be something else in the guitar->amp signal chain. you told us about your recording gear (which should be plenty sufficient for getting a usable guitar sound), but what are you running in your guitar rig? if there's one thing that gives "proof in the pudding" about the true fidelities of ones guitar rig, it's sticking a mic in front of it. :D


hope this helps some and check back in.....


wade
 
oh, and you should be going mics->mixer->motu. mics need a preamp to get their levels up to line level--the mixer (although you don't say what flavor) provides that. that NT1 will also need phantom power.

didn't really dawn on me that your inital question was really a "how should i plug this in?" one...... :p


wade
 
If it sounds good in the room....

put the Rode where you are standing....at your ear level.....

worth a try....ya know?
 
mrface2112 said:
oh, and you should be going mics->mixer->motu. mics need a preamp to get their levels up to line level--the mixer (although you don't say what flavor) provides that. that NT1 will also need phantom power.

didn't really dawn on me that your inital question was really a "how should i plug this in?" one...... :p


wade
Click to expand...

Motus have built in Pres....maybe it's because you are using two pres in the chain and that could be skrewwing up the sound....too much gain and drive...ya know?
 
good point joro

i knew the 896 had pres, but i didn't know about the 828, which is what he said he was using. i was assuming it did not......although upon inspection, it does have two. so, absolutely that could be doing the trick.

where are you plugging the mixer into the motu (which inputs)? and what kind of lines are you running out of the mixer into the motu (and from where)? is everything balanced?

the list grows.....


wade
 
consider a change in your thinking and go about it this way. since the room really filters the sound, what really matters is what it sounds like to the mic (i.e. recorded).

assume for now the tone coming out of the speaker is just right. now, spend all of your time finding the correct location for the mic... to catpure that tone. (note that mic movement of an inch or a slight angle difference will make a hugh difference) so for now forget what it sounds like in the room.

to do this well, it's best to have the cabinet in another room, but if you can't, then you'll need headphones with good isolation and/or an assistant (friend with earplugs). try to isolate the cabinet from your listening position the best you can. with headphones on (and the friend with earplugs in), have your assistant (or you) start with the mic pointing at the center of the cone, about 3 inches out, and while playing rotate the mic very slowly over the speaker until you find a location that may work. you may have to play, adjust mic, record and then listen to the recording... over and over. now, if you can't find a suitable tone, move the mic back an inch or more and repeat. if you still can't find the right tone, then change the amps tone and start over again.

now, when you find something that you think will work, record a short passage, then double it if it's a rhythm track.

keep doing this and you'll finally get the tone you want.

don't be afraid to try different mics. but start with a tried and true SM57.
 
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thnks for all your advice. i'm not running from mackie preamps into motu preamps, the 896 has a line in selector switch and the 828 has line in jacks on the back. right now i've returned the 896 and i've got the 828 mkii, which has 2 mic preamps and 8 line ins.
current setup is mics -> mixer preaps. channels 1-6 have direct outs on the 1402vlz (double as channel inserts). these direct outs run to the line in inputs on the motu. motu settings have all inputs set to -10.
my amps are about 8-10 feet apart, both aimed in general towards the rode. the mics on amps are right in front of the grill cloth (but not touching) right on center.
my guitar is a late 70's ibanez artist (les paul double cutaway copy).
like i said , i think it sounds good live, but recording it seems to suck all the life (and highs) out of it.
i'll check out differences in mic placement.
 
Aaron Cheney said:
If you're amp sounds great in the room and great in the headphones, but crappy in the mix, then my guess is you're guitar tone is wrong for the song. You have some other elements in the mix competeing for space.
Click to expand...

I also had some troubles with bass and standing frequencies in the monitoring room. And since Im stuck with the control room and sound room in adjascent rooms, I had trouble with instruments drowning out the monitors which will cause overadjustment on the pre signal. Food for thought...
 
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