Help rearranging my setup please

undrgrnd studio

undrgrnd studio

New member
I could use some assistance in determining what gear to use for my studio. I have been fairly happy with the way I have it set up, but I just got some new gear and thought it would be a good time to reassess what gear I am using for what purpose.

Tonight I will be recording a full band. I basically direct in the guitar and bass, have the singer on a scratch track and then keep the drum and bass take, with occasional punch ins on bass. Then the guitars and vocals get re tracked. This is typical of how I use the studio.

The way it is currently set up is.

Drums Setup:
SP B1 mic approximately 3 feet above snare/hi hat/crash section.
Going through an M-Audio DMP-3.

M-Audio Nova 3 feet above the ride/floor tom area.
Through DMP-3

SM 57 pointed at snare 3 inches away.
M-Audio Audio Buddy preamp.

SM 57 6 inches away slight off center from sound hole in front of kick drum
Bellari MP-105 mic pre with telefunken tube and upgraded opamaps and pots.

Guitar Setup:
SM 57 - directly in front of two 12" 70's tuck n roll Kustom speaker cab, Fender 100 watt head.
Rane MS1-B.

Bass Setup:
Modded P Bass, direct into ART MPA Gold, upgraded tubes.

Vocals Setup:
AT 4040
Symetrix 525 compressor, Art MPA Gold, upgraded tubes.

I have new gear as of this week. This is what I have at my disposal now.

Mics:
AT4040, M-Audio Luna, M-Audio Nova, Studio Projects B-1, SM 58, 3 SM 57’s, Shure Unidyne, 2 misc crappy dynamics
Mic Pres:

Art MPA Gold Swapped tubes, Art Digital MPA II swapped tubes, M-Audio DMP-3, M-Audio audio buddy, Bellari MP-105 modded, Rane MS 1B, 2 ART Tube MPs

Compression:
FMR RNC, Symetrix 525, Alesis NanoCompressor

Amps:
Tubeworks tubedriver, Fender 100 watt with 2X12 Kustom, SWR Working pro 300 with 2X10 Genz Benz.

So basically I was wondering if any of you had specific suggestion on what gear to use with what?
 
undrgrnd studio said:
I could use some assistance in determining what gear to use for my studio. I have been fairly happy with the way I have it set up, but I just got some new gear and thought it would be a good time to reassess what gear I am using for what purpose.

Tonight I will be recording a full band. I basically direct in the guitar and bass, have the singer on a scratch track and then keep the drum and bass take, with occasional punch ins on bass. Then the guitars and vocals get re tracked. This is typical of how I use the studio.

The way it is currently set up is.

Drums Setup:
SP B1 mic approximately 3 feet above snare/hi hat/crash section.
Going through an M-Audio DMP-3.

M-Audio Nova 3 feet above the ride/floor tom area.
Through DMP-3

SM 57 pointed at snare 3 inches away.
M-Audio Audio Buddy preamp.

SM 57 6 inches away slight off center from sound hole in front of kick drum
Bellari MP-105 mic pre with telefunken tube and upgraded opamaps and pots.

Guitar Setup:
SM 57 - directly in front of two 12" 70's tuck n roll Kustom speaker cab, Fender 100 watt head.
Rane MS1-B.

Bass Setup:
Modded P Bass, direct into ART MPA Gold, upgraded tubes.

Vocals Setup:
AT 4040
Symetrix 525 compressor, Art MPA Gold, upgraded tubes.

I have new gear as of this week. This is what I have at my disposal now.

Mics:
AT4040, M-Audio Luna, M-Audio Nova, Studio Projects B-1, SM 58, 3 SM 57’s, Shure Unidyne, 2 misc crappy dynamics
Mic Pres:

Art MPA Gold Swapped tubes, Art Digital MPA II swapped tubes, M-Audio DMP-3, M-Audio audio buddy, Bellari MP-105 modded, Rane MS 1B, 2 ART Tube MPs

Compression:
FMR RNC, Symetrix 525, Alesis NanoCompressor

Amps:
Tubeworks tubedriver, Fender 100 watt with 2X12 Kustom, SWR Working pro 300 with 2X10 Genz Benz.

So basically I was wondering if any of you had specific suggestion on what gear to use with what?
Click to expand...

What to use with what?

Use your ears to see what sounds good.

Nobody can tell you exactly what piece of your equipment (that we are not in the same room as) is going to work on what. Play around, see what you like. And if you can't hear what sounds good and what doesn't, (I'm not trying to be a smart-ass here) you need to go back to the drawing board.
 
Look man, I know what I have, and I have been using it for years. I'm not looking for someone to tell me what to do with every piece of gear I own. I thought perhaps some people would see something I may have missed with me setup. Maybe, for instance someone would say, "hey why not use the SM 57 as an overhead and the condenser on the snare. You know what I mean. There are people on this board with a lot more experience than I have. Especially when it comes to micing drums.

Why are you jumping to such extremes? Go back to the drawing board? This board is HERE for giving and receiving advice. You know so we can ALL improve our recordings. It's not for smart ass comments designed to belittle people asking for advice. Which it seems is getting more and more common here every passing year.
 
Just ignore the "A holes" undrgrnd studio...thats what i do.

I dont have much to add except I never thought of using a 57 on a kick drum like you did...perhaps I will try that myself and see how it sounds.

---------------

Please no comments about the "A Hole" remark...Im to tired to care.
 
undrgrnd studio said:
Look man, I know what I have, and I have been using it for years. I'm not looking for someone to tell me what to do with every piece of gear I own. I thought perhaps some people would see something I may have missed with me setup. Maybe, for instance someone would say, "hey why not use the SM 57 as an overhead and the condenser on the snare. You know what I mean. There are people on this board with a lot more experience than I have. Especially when it comes to micing drums.

Why are you jumping to such extremes? Go back to the drawing board? This board is HERE for giving and receiving advice. You know so we can ALL improve our recordings. It's not for smart ass comments designed to belittle people asking for advice. Which it seems is getting more and more common here every passing year.
Click to expand...

If you can imagine someone saying something like "hey why not use the SM 57 as an overhead and the condenser on the snare.", why can't you just imagine some other setups? You're going to come up with much better answers than we are, because you are the one who's going to test it out.

And if you can't come up with any ideas, write a load of mics on pieces of paper, and put them into a hat. Do another one for potential sound sources (voice, amp etc.), and then draw em out and try em out.

I'm not being an asshole, despite what you want to think. You're just a little too sensitive for the truth. Everybody's lookin for someone to tell them "this is exactly what you have to do", and if you've read this board (and I know you have), you know that this isn't the way to go. In the time you've spent asking the question on this board, you'd probably have tested out at least a quarter of what-on-what.

Look man, I know what I have, and I have been using it for years.
Click to expand...

Have you been using the same thing for years? Then it doesn't take a genius to work out that this is your problem. If you haven't been using the same thing for years, and have been switching things around, I don't know why you bothered starting this thread when you've been on the right track.
 
This may seem like a generic answer...but if you think about it, you can apply it specifically to your setup/gear.

Rather than getting into fine details and telling you "Try the 4040 in place of the 57 on the guitars"...etc...etc...
...I would suggest that you consider your existing setups and then DON'T change anything that really rocked for you.
Then use your new gear to try something different only on those applications that were so-so.
And if nothing exciting comes out...change them up again.
Do one or two changes at a time. If you change everything all at once...you might feel overwhelmed at first because nothing will be instantly "comfortable"...and you certainly don't want that much change going into a session.
 
miroslav said:
This may seem like a generic answer...but if you think about it, you can apply it specifically to your setup/gear.

Rather than getting into fine details and telling you "Try the 4040 in place of the 57 on the guitars"...etc...etc...
...I would suggest that you consider your existing setups and then DON'T change anything that really rocked for you.
Then use your new gear to try something different only on those applications that were so-so.
And if nothing exciting comes out...change them up again.
Do one or two changes at a time. If you change everything all at once...you might feel overwhelmed at first because nothing will be instantly "comfortable"...and you certainly don't want that much change going into a session.
Click to expand...

^^^ Exactly ^^^
 
undrgrnd studio said:
I could use some assistance in determining what gear to use for my studio. I have been fairly happy with the way I have it set up, but I just got some new gear and thought it would be a good time to reassess what gear I am using for what purpose.
Click to expand...
Are there any aspects of the sounds you are able to get that you're not happy with ?
 
undrgrnd studio said:
The way it is currently set up is.

Drums Setup:
SP B1 mic approximately 3 feet above snare/hi hat/crash section.
Going through an M-Audio DMP-3.

M-Audio Nova 3 feet above the ride/floor tom area.
Through DMP-3

SM 57 pointed at snare 3 inches away.
M-Audio Audio Buddy preamp.

...etc
Click to expand...

Looks like there is a basic misunderstanding of recording going on here. Here is the basic setup of a typical studio:

Mics- In the mic cabinet.
Cables- Coiled up in bins.



You miss the point approaching it as "this goes with this". I probably won't have the same number of microphones on a drum kit from song to song on the same album...let alone the same model mic on the same drum in the same place.

The better approach is to listen to every mic you own on every instrument from every angle and distance. Do it in your spare time. Start with your own voice. Just make noises at every mic. Sing into the front. Sing into the side. Sing near. Sing far. Don't even sing. Talk. Or Beatbox. Make any and every sound with your voice. Just take all of your mics for a drive around the block. Once you learn what the mics do and how they are different, you will be able to choose them for various situations that arise.
 
Chibi Nappa said:
Looks like there is a basic misunderstanding of recording going on here. Here is the basic setup of a typical studio:

Mics- In the mic cabinet.
Cables- Coiled up in bins.
Click to expand...

Nope, I leave most everything set up and move it around as the situation calls for. I have limited time to record, so when I do record, I want everything as close to ready as possible. It already takes me a good half hour to an hour to get line levels and mic positioning set up, depending on what we're recording. And when I do record it's usually between about 8-9pm to about 1am. So if I have to route all my cables, set up stands and mics, and then check levels I am wasting too much time.

I record everything from solo artists, to full bands. Recently I have been doing much more in the full band department. But when I need to record an acoustic guitar, I already have the mics setup because I use the same two mics for vocals that I use for acoustic guitars. Sometimes I'll take the B1 from the overhead mics and use that as well.

Don't get me wrong, I certainly change things around when the situation calls for it, but in general I keep things at a "default" which allows me to get moving quicker. I'm not running a professional studio with paying customers, I do this because I am a musician and all of my friends are musicians.

What I ended up doing is this for my default setup.

Nova and B1 mics still as overheads, still going through the DMP3.

57 still on Snare going through the ART Digital MPA.

57 still on Kick, still running through the modded Bellari MP-105, but I am also running it through the symetrix 525 compressor.

57 still on elec guitar going through the Rane MS1B.

The Bass is now going through one of the ART MPA channels and the FMR RNC.

AT 4040 paired with the ART MPA and FMR RNC, it's sharing the bass channel. But I never use them at the same time anyway. I need more compressors still.

Luna is also on an ART MPA channel.

I now have 2 channels open for scratch tracks, which I was in dire need of previously. I always had to reroute things for scratch tracks previously.

One issue I haven't resolved yet is that I have yet to figure out how to use the digital MPA with my compressors. The output is going through s pdif, so I can't route from pre to compressor, and then to interface. I'll probably have to use the inserts, I just never tried that before. I'll have to bust out the manual.
 
Last edited:
grimtraveller said:
Are there any aspects of the sounds you are able to get that you're not happy with ?
Click to expand...

Yes, the drums clip on the kick and occasionally on the overheads. The bass is often too muddy using the ART MP which I loathe. But I took care of that, it's just being used as a scratch channel now. Bass is now going through the ART MPA now that I have more channels. Elec Guitars I always overdub and occasionally I use multiple amps, guitars, and mics that I blend together for a fuller sound when necessary.

Vocals, I wish I had a better compressor for. And for my voice I'm not crazy about the AT4040 or LUNA. So basically I need some more compression channels, and probably another mic. I can sell the Luna and try for a different mic that works better with my voice.
 
If your looking for new vocal microphones check out MXLs V67g, V69m,or the V6.
The rode K2, or the Shure SM7b.
I like all of these microphones and they are all a good starting point for vocal recordings unless you have mucho $ to spend on something really really nice.



:cool:
 
moresound said:
If your looking for new vocal microphones check out MXLs V67g, V69m,or the V6.
The rode K2, or the Shure SM7b.
I like all of these microphones and they are all a good starting point for vocal recordings unless you have mucho $ to spend on something really really nice.



:cool:
Click to expand...

I was thinking of getting the SM7b. I think with the money I get from selling the Luna and an unused patchbay I'll be close enough to justify spending the extra $.
 
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