HELP - Precision Bass has developed a warped neck

[johnnymegabyte]

HELP !!!! Last night, I pulled out my 30+ year old precision bass, for the first time in 2 years.
Well, I picked it up and it's normally low action is now high, and the neck is bowed slightly, to where it is now approx 1/2" action (maybe a tad less/more) around the 12th fret.

Any suggestions in straightening out the neck ?
Tighten or Loosen the neck ? Adjusting the trust rod ... turn left = tighten ?

By the way, I had it standing upright in it's case. Does this make any difference, as opposed to storing flat ?


Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Victory Pete]

HELP !!!! Last night, I pulled out my 30+ year old precision bass, for the first time in 2 years.
Well, I picked it up and it's normally low action is now high, and the neck is bowed slightly, to where it is now approx 1/2" action (maybe a tad less/more) around the 12th fret.

Any suggestions in straightening out the neck ?
Tighten or Loosen the neck ? Adjusting the trust rod ... turn left = tighten ?

By the way, I had it standing upright in it's case. Does this make any difference, as opposed to storing flat ?


Any help would be appreciated.

Guitars and Basses should have their strings loosened when not used for an extended time. The strings can tighten with time and can pulled the neck out of alignment. Other factors like humidity changes may have contributed also. As the humidity drops the neck will bow more. The wood in the neck will slighty shrink which makes less tension on the trussrod, the strings will then pull the neck foward. Replace the strings with new ones and then see if that helps. Adjusting the trussrod on a Fender Bass can be tricky, The access for the adjustment is sometimes hidden by the pickguard.
VP

 

[danw]

I don't think that's normal from string tension. I've had mine in the case for a couple of years at the time, and it has always come out playable. My guess is there's been a major temperature or humidity change in the environment since you last played it. It is my understanding that that's usually the cause of wood movement. I'd be awfully surprised if storing it upright made a difference.

You could check the neck joint first; just make sure the heel is tight up against the body. I don't know why that would come loose, but it'll be obvious if that's the problem.

It sounds like you ought to be able to fix this with a truss rod adjustment. To the best of my knowledge, it's righty-tighty-lefty-loosy just like most other bolts. To get rid of the relief, you should be tightening it. Either way, don't crank the hell out of the truss rod; just turn it 1/4 turn or so at the time, and wait a few minutes to let the neck adjust; it may not flatten out immediately. If the truss rod just spins, like it's got no tension on it, it could be busted; that could also explain a sudden warpage after 30 years.

 

[johnnymegabyte]

thanks everyone for your suggestions

 

[Lt. Bob]

well first off strings don't tighten in the case. The string tension may vary some small amount from temperature changes but that's normal. The strings certainly wouldn't somehow tighten enough to warp the neck.

Second .... while it may be nice to loosen the strings when not in use ..... it's hardly important to do so. I mean, what's the difference between having tension on it for 2 years and taking it out of the case a few times a week and playing it or having it in tension and not playing it? From the neck's standpoint there's not really much difference.

I also don't think storing it vertically matters either and, if anything, I'd prefer vertical to horizontal because depending on the case you may have some side load on the neck. But really, it's not that big a deal.

So I think you can quit feeling like you did something that messed up your bass.

You would turn a truss rod clockwise to tighten it.
But, though I'm a big proponent of doing it yourself to learn and I consider truss-rod adjustment pretty simple and an easy first step in learning to set up guitars; that's a lot of bow. I'd be concerned that it may be something else ....,

As danw suggested ..... check the neck joint and tighten all the screws in that neck plate. Make sure the neck screws are good and tight.
If you try the truss rod ..... do also as danw said ..... 1/4 turn at a time ..... give it a day or so each time to see how it settles out.
It's also ok to put the back of that neck across your thigh and put a little back pressure on it to speed things up as the truss rod adjustments go along. Obviously don't try to break the damned thing ..... just turn the truss rod 1/4 turn, flex the neck back a little bit towards being straighter and then see what happens before turning it more.

 

[Zaphod B]

I agree with the suggestion for adjusting the truss rod.

But while you're at it, (and as danw said) check that neck joint, and also have a look at the bridge screws. Never hurts to make sure that everything is screwed down tight.

Also, storing the guitar upright in the case is the best way to do it so you're good there.

Going two years without any attention should not require loosening the strings. I've had guitars sit up for much longer than that and come out of the case with perfect action. As danw said, the changes that you see are most likely due to movement of the wood due to environmental issues.

 

[Victory Pete]

well first off strings don't tighten in the case. The string tension may vary some small amount from temperature changes but that's normal. The strings certainly wouldn't somehow tighten enough to warp the neck.

Second .... while it may be nice to loosen the strings when not in use ..... it's hardly important to do so. I mean, what's the difference between having tension on it for 2 years and taking it out of the case a few times a week and playing it or having it in tension and not playing it? From the neck's standpoint there's not really much difference.

I also don't think storing it vertically matters either and, if anything, I'd prefer vertical to horizontal because depending on the case you may have some side load on the neck. But really, it's not that big a deal.

So I think you can quit feeling like you did something that messed up your bass.

You would turn a truss rod clockwise to tighten it.
But, though I'm a big proponent of doing it yourself to learn and I consider truss-rod adjustment pretty simple and an easy first step in learning to set up guitars; that's a lot of bow. I'd be concerned that it may be something else ....,

As danw suggested ..... check the neck joint and tighten all the screws in that neck plate. Make sure the neck screws are good and tight.
If you try the truss rod ..... do also as danw said ..... 1/4 turn at a time ..... give it a day or so each time to see how it settles out.
It's also ok to put the back of that neck across your thigh and put a little back pressure on it to speed things up as the truss rod adjustments go along. Obviously don't try to break the damned thing ..... just turn the truss rod 1/4 turn, flex the neck back a little bit towards being straighter and then see what happens before turning it more.

I know this is going to start contraversy but there have been many times I have observed a guitar or bass that has sat unplayed for a while and the strings are very sharp and the neck is bowed. I know humidity changes the relief of a neck, dry is bow, humid is straight. How could a guitar have strings that are sharp and a bowed neck? If it was just the neck pulling the strings back that caused the strings to tighten (because of high humidty) how could you explain a bowed neck and sharp strings? I feel this is why they say to always loosen the strings for an extended time of not playing. By they I mean many books and manufacturers. I know somebody who had me look at one of supposedly Buddy Holly's Gretsch's. The neck was badly bowed and the strings were sharp. The owner didnt want to have anything adjusted, he was afraid of deminishing the "collectability". I asked him when was it tuned last and he didnt know, he didnt play himself, but It must had been years.
VP

 

[Victory Pete]

HELP !!!! Last night, I pulled out my 30+ year old precision bass, for the first time in 2 years.
Well, I picked it up and it's normally low action is now high, and the neck is bowed slightly, to where it is now approx 1/2" action (maybe a tad less/more) around the 12th fret.

Any suggestions in straightening out the neck ?
Tighten or Loosen the neck ? Adjusting the trust rod ... turn left = tighten ?

By the way, I had it standing upright in it's case. Does this make any difference, as opposed to storing flat ?


Any help would be appreciated.

Did you notice if the strings where sharp or flat? Also had the bass been stored in roughly the same temperature?
VP

 

[muttley600]

Guitars and Basses should have their strings loosened when not used for an extended time. The strings can tighten with time and can pulled the neck out of alignment. Other factors like humidity changes may have contributed also. As the humidity drops the neck will bow more. The wood in the neck will slighty shrink which makes less tension on the trussrod, the strings will then pull the neck foward. Replace the strings with new ones and then see if that helps. Adjusting the trussrod on a Fender Bass can be tricky, The access for the adjustment is sometimes hidden by the pickguard.
VP

bullshit.

Johnnymegabyte, please ignore the stuff posted by this guy. I'm about to sit down and eat after getting in from the workshop. I'll give you a list of things to check and illuminate shortly. I haven't read the rest of the replies but those guys are genuine..Hang in there for an hour or so and I'll brb.

 

[muttley600]

HELP !!!! Last night, I pulled out my 30+ year old precision bass, for the first time in 2 years.
Well, I picked it up and it's normally low action is now high, and the neck is bowed slightly, to where it is now approx 1/2" action (maybe a tad less/more) around the 12th fret.

Any suggestions in straightening out the neck ?
Tighten or Loosen the neck ? Adjusting the trust rod ... turn left = tighten ?

By the way, I had it standing upright in it's case. Does this make any difference, as opposed to storing flat ?


Any help would be appreciated.

OK buddy, First things first don't panic. The easy question first. N o standing the case upright is highly unlikely to cause a problem. Forget that one.

If the action has radically changed in a short space of time the first thing I would check would be the general integrity of the instrument.

Give the neck joint a thorough check. Slack the strings and carefully check that the neck sits in the pocket properly with no wiggle. Get the right size driver and check those screws are home all the way and biting. Do the same for the bridge. In most cases where the action goes way off you can pin it down to that.

While your looking at that check the neck by sighting down it's length. Anything look out of wack. What sort of f/b does it have? Any sign of it popping loose if it's a rosewood board.

If your happy that all the above is Ok, get yourself a two foot straight edge from some where and lay it on the frets and see how much neck relief you have and report back. While you at itgive us some more details on the guitar.

What fingerboard?
Any other non standard mods on it like bridge?
As it sounds that the change in action is rapid and drastic I would hold fire on blaming humidity changes just yet but what is the general climate in your area and is it seasonal change time? It does normally take quite a big change to knock a bass out though.

Don't play with the truss rod until you have passed on this info and certainly if your not sure what your doing. A change as drastic as you describe could but not definitely be a sign of something that you could make worse if you don't know what your doing. I wont tell you how many necks I've had apart and reset as a result of well meaning attempts and truss rod adjustment.

Be patient and track down the cause and then we can give you some more concrete advice on how to approach it.

Good luck

 

[true-eurt]

Victory Pete,

I have 13 guitars...all of which are stored in their cases...a couple in gig bags..and this year being the first time in years, I have not taken each one out on a regular basis(save for one of the accoustics and spankenheimer Rose) and played, shined, changed strings or just hugged them...etc.

I read your warning...and just finished taking each one out, expecting to find bowed necks...not one of em are damaged in any way shape or form...just really lonely.

It's been over 10 months of storage for them.

BTW...does anyone here know of any storing instructions from guitar manufacturers pertaining to this??????...I would think, if it were so, then the companies would warn you, no?

 

[muttley600]

Victory Pete,

I have 13 guitars...all of which are stored in their cases...a couple in gig bags..and this year being the first time in years, I have not taken each one out on a regular basis(save for one of the accoustics and spankenheimer Rose) and played, shined, changed strings or just hugged them...etc.

I read your warning...and just finished taking each one out, expecting to find bowed necks...not one of em are damaged in any way shape or form...just really lonely.

It's been over 10 months of storage for them.

BTW...does anyone here know of any storing instructions from guitar manufacturers pertaining to this??????...I would think, if it were so, then the companies would warn you, no?

Hey true- how you doing, long time no see in these parts.

This guitar maker actually tells people to keep the tension on the neck when it's stowed. You can slacken them down a half step if you want no biggie.

Generally if a neck is going to suffer from working tension it doesn't matter if it's in a case hanging on the wall or in your hands because it's down to either poor or faulty materials or workmanship. It definitely isn't going to appear on a thirty year old PB. Your babies will be fine in their cases or just having a huggin'

 

[true-eurt]

Hey true- how you doing, long time no see in these parts.

This guitar maker actually tells people to keep the tension on the neck when it's stowed. You can slacken them down a half step if you want no biggie.

Generally if a neck is going to suffer from working tension it doesn't matter if it's in a case hanging on the wall or in your hands because it's down to either poor or faulty materials or workmanship. It definitely isn't going to appear on a thirty year old PB. Your babies will be fine in their cases or just having a huggin'

Thanks Muttley...I do remember you saying something about that, waaay back when. I had asked about hanging guitars from a wall rack...


I just wanted the point made a bit plainer..by example of my own babies' experience of being neglected.



And I've been doing great Muttley! Hows all going for you these days!

 

[true-eurt]

I would like to add...anyone who hangs around the guitar/basses forum..or any other forum for that matter, knows..that if you give inexperienced or unresearched advice, there will be a mass of knowledgable users sorting you out...

I think it is smarter to post your advice, as actual experience or knowledge...or state, that you have heard this and leave it open for discussion...when you give your advice as sound and true..be prepared to back it up...or take your medicine.

 

[Victory Pete]

Victory Pete,

I have 13 guitars...all of which are stored in their cases...a couple in gig bags..and this year being the first time in years, I have not taken each one out on a regular basis(save for one of the accoustics and spankenheimer Rose) and played, shined, changed strings or just hugged them...etc.

I read your warning...and just finished taking each one out, expecting to find bowed necks...not one of em are damaged in any way shape or form...just really lonely.

It's been over 10 months of storage for them.

BTW...does anyone here know of any storing instructions from guitar manufacturers pertaining to this??????...I would think, if it were so, then the companies would warn you, no?

Thanks for your reply, I never said the neck would bow from storage. I just suggested that strings increase in tension with time. That tension doesnt mean it will bow the neck. Is it agreed strings increase in tension from playing? Is it accepted that old played strings are harder to play and stiffer(more tension)? I wondered if strings kept under tension become stiffer and tighter with time even if they arent played. I have repeatedly have had to loosen my strings on many guitars that were in thier case or hanging on the wall. I am going to start an experiment. I will take an E string, Martin 056 and hang it with a certain amount of weight, 10lbs. I will then see what pitch it is with an acoustic pickup and an Oscilloscope. I will then monitor the pitch and see if it in fact increases with time.
VP

 

[muttley600]

.........................



And I've been doing great Muttley! Hows all going for you these days!

Good thanks,

Kids are thriving, got some interesting builds on the bench, booked up for 18 months and have a stack of repairs and setups to wade through. On top of that wifey still seems to like me. One happy bunny most of the time.

Same for you I hope.

 

[Victory Pete]

I would like to add...anyone who hangs around the guitar/basses forum..or any other forum for that matter, knows..that if you give inexperienced or unresearched advice, there will be a mass of knowledgable users sorting you out...

I think it is smarter to post your advice, as actual experience or knowledge...or state, that you have heard this and leave it open for discussion...when you give your advice as sound and true..be prepared to back it up...or take your medicine.

I usually express my views and opinions to be my own experiences and observations. I am sure at some point I make it sound like proven scientific fact. But arent the others to do the same? I am all for having discussions but I have been attacked and insulted by the same group. Most of them have no useable input at all they are just the instigators. Thanks for your advice.
VP

 

[Lt. Bob]

Thanks for your reply, I never said the neck would bow from storage. I just suggested that strings increase in tension with time. That tension doesnt mean it will bow the neck. Is it agreed strings increase in tension from playing? Is it accepted that old played strings are harder to play and stiffer(more tension)? I wondered if strings kept under tension become stiffer and tighter with time even if they arent played. I have repeatedly have had to loosen my strings on many guitars that were in thier case or hanging on the wall. I am going to start an experiment. I will take an E string, Martin 056 and hang it with a certain amount of weight, 10lbs. I will then see what pitch it is with an acoustic pickup and an Oscilloscope. I will then monitor the pitch and see if it in fact increases with time.
VP

strings don't tightern with time.
In general strings will drop in pitch with time if they do anything because ANYTHING that is under tension 'wants' to go to a lighter tension.
I'm a piano rebuilder/technician and pianos that are not tuned ALWAYS go down in pitch ..... always.
If strings tightened over time that wouldn't be the case.
As for humidity ...... I suppose it can affect a neck but not to the point of making the strings go higher in pitch plus you can't be sure which way humidity might make a neck move. It's certainly not a case of "humid is straight and dry is bowed".
You have a different opinion of course and I doubt you're open to changing your mind but I really don't agree with what you're saying on this subject and I do have a 40 year background in working on gits and pianos.

 

[Lt. Bob]

Is it agreed strings increase in tension from playing? Is it accepted that old played strings are harder to play and stiffer(more tension)?
VP

no it's not agreed.
Strings that are played a lot generally go down in pitch.
And old played strings do not get stiffer .... they just don't.
And if the pitch is the same, then it's not possible for a string to be stiffer. That's strictly a matter of physics ... a certain mass string at a certain pitch HAS to be at a certain tension.

 

[Lt. Bob]

I am going to start an experiment. I will take an E string, Martin 056 and hang it with a certain amount of weight, 10lbs. I will then see what pitch it is with an acoustic pickup and an Oscilloscope. I will then monitor the pitch and see if it in fact increases with time.
VP

there is absolutely no way that, under the described situation, that string will tighten over time.