Help on song format, please.

[shrimphead]

I am not sure if this is the correct place to ask this question. I am new on recording and can not read music well enough to be fluent at it, especially note reading. I have not practiced this enough, but easily understand tabs.

I play the guitar and understand some music theory, chord progressions(how they work), some phrasing, scales, intervals, etc....but still need to work on my rhythm. After all of the above mentioned, I can lay down a rhythm track and play a lead on the next, and burn a cd, however; this is where my problem begins.

I need some advice on putting together a song but do not understand exactly the correct format of a song. For instance, I know about the 12 bar blues and its quick change format, and this goes for other songs be it pop, rock, or country, I know little on how long a song should be. You know when you want someone else to listen to it and at least to be somewhat professional sounding.

My question is what is a correct format, length of time for a song, or structure? How do you prepare to record a song? Is there reading material that some of you know of, or internet help that you may be aware of. How do you make your music one cohesive whole? I know little about the AABA structure for example, or when does the chorus or bridge come to play? Sorry to be long winded, but this is my weakest link on recording or just playing a song. Thank you for your replies, they will be greatly appreciated. Keep on keepin on.

 

[Nicole_Rose]

I am not sure if this is the correct place to ask this question. I am new on recording and can not read music well enough to be fluent at it, especially note reading. I have not practiced this enough, but easily understand tabs.

I play the guitar and understand some music theory, chord progressions(how they work), some phrasing, scales, intervals, etc....but still need to work on my rhythm. After all of the above mentioned, I can lay down a rhythm track and play a lead on the next, and burn a cd, however; this is where my problem begins.

I need some advice on putting together a song but do not understand exactly the correct format of a song. For instance, I know about the 12 bar blues and its quick change format, and this goes for other songs be it pop, rock, or country, I know little on how long a song should be. You know when you want someone else to listen to it and at least to be somewhat professional sounding.

and not just popular songs or bands, but songs that You like.

edit: and not just popular groups and songs, but songs that You like.
My question is what is a correct format, length of time for a song, or structure? How do you prepare to record a song? Is there reading material that some of you know of, or internet help that you may be aware of. How do you make your music one cohesive whole? I know little about the AABA structure for example, or when does the chorus or bridge come to play? Sorry to be long winded, but this is my weakest link on recording or just playing a song. Thank you for your replies, they will be greatly appreciated. Keep on keepin on.

there is no "correct" format my friend. at least not one big one. there are correct formats that depend on what you want to do with the song. for example, if you want to play the song on the radio, it should be no more than 3 something minutes in length. and even then there are definitely exceptions to that rule. stairway to heaven started out at 17 minutes and the radio stations wouldnt' play it. they cut it down to 12, and the radio guys said close enough. but zeppelin was already a big name.

a lot of the "format" comes from your art. this is an artform as much as a science. you've been listening to music for your whole life probably. you have many formats stored away if you just listen critically. i suggest you study the kind of music you want to play and listen critically to what the popular bands play and find out what works and figure out why it works. then maybe you can make it work for you.

 

[Emusic]

My question is what is a correct format, length of time for a song, or structure? How do you prepare to record a song? Is there reading material that some of you know of, or internet help that you may be aware of. How do you make your music one cohesive whole? I know little about the AABA structure for example, or when does the chorus or bridge come to play? Sorry to be long winded, but this is my weakest link on recording or just playing a song. Thank you for your replies, they will be greatly appreciated. Keep on keepin on.

That sure is a lot of questions. Seems to me you are where we all have been once in our approach to music.
I remember myself asking a musician (I had just started the piano playing and had found out some of the maths of the piano) what "numbers" (from the scale) was right to use when you wanted to make and chord sound a little different and cooler. I HAD to know because I felt I was stuck.
"You know the 2 allready", he asked
"Yeah thats using a D when playing a C-chord", I said. "That sounds great, but I need more theory", I replied. "What others should I use beside the 2?"
He laughed a little in a friendly way and said:
"Play what sounds great or right."

Might seem odd for you that I tell this story here, but "play what feels/sounds" rights?
There is a lot of thruth in that, but you will have to move a bit further maybe into song structures and theory to fully appreciate the weight of that advice.
Before I try to be more precise on your questions and answer them; think of some great songs that doesnt follow traditional structure. My favorite example is Stevie Wonders "Isnt she wonderful". A song full of verses. Or is it just choruses? Who can tell. But its the same theme all the way. And it works. Wonders !

Well, to the answers:
Format, length of time
For radio play as of today I would say 3:00-3:50 minutes long. Most are around 3:30 in later years hits. Gradually getting shorter and shorter the last 20 years.

Song structure?
I'm gonna post you a link to some great info on the subject, but again; think of Stevies song again when you read that
Wikipedia on song structure

How do you prepare to record a song?
Ain't too sure what you mean here. Prepare mentally? You can record a song in any mental mood. Prepare practically? Have time set off, have some gear (boy, gear; THATs a huge one) and be relaxed. Have confidence in what you are doing, whatever the outcome is. Sounds bad? Well then it's how you sound now, and it can only get better. Practice, practice and then some.

Is there reading material that some of you know of, or internet help that you may be aware of.
Oh yeah there is. Internet is full of it. There are thousands of books on the subject; some great, some good and a lot of bad ones.
Do a web search. Use search terms like "Song structure" (thats how I found the link I posted above), music production, chorus, bridge, intro, hit song, killer lyrics ..... (and then some)
Net is packed with good and bad info on the subject

How do you make your music one cohesive whole?
Thats called the art of songwriting and music production and can't be learned from a forum thread like this one. My advise; seek up a small music producer that is operating at some experience levels above you. Ask him/her kindly if you could join him in his (home/project/multimillon) studio to pick up some tricks and inspiration.
Or Google it on the net and read alot; allthough I prefer a combination of learning from watching others working and reading about the subject.
But most important of all; songwrite! Write songs. And maybe the most important advice: Finish them!

When does the chorus or bridge come to play?
Look at the link above (song structure). It has information on the subject.
But then again; you have to experiment. Do you feel that the song you are working on needs a change between verse 1 and the chorus? Try a prechorus? Tired of the long string of choruses filling the last 2 minutes of your song? Spice it up with a bridge early between some of those choruses? There aint no rules here.
Listen to "Walking on the moon" with The Police(Sting). Great tune! But totally outta bounds when it comes to traditional song layouts. Still a masterclass piece of songwriting.

Sorry to be long winded, but this is my weakest link on recording or just playing a song.
Ditto. We've all been there at some point. Keep up your love to music; practice and thou shall grow as a shongwriter.

Best of luck.

 

[shrimphead]

Thanks emusic

Thanks emusic for your time in explaining your thoughts on the subject matter. I agree there were a lot of questions I asked, and value your detailed input. Have a good one.