Help me put together a PA System...

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typi

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Folks,

Your help is needed! I have finally put together a band that is almost ready to roll. I have invested significant time and effort, and have decided I want to be responsible for handling the sound system. I also want to help out some friends doing their sound on occasion. I am not really a complete newbie to sound reinforcement, but let's just say that I am. Here are some particulars--even though I have inflated some of these specs so I can build in some extra 'horsepower' for future use:

1.) The Band(s):

Minimum 6 pieces. I would like to be able to do
Keys, Drums, Bass, Up to 2 Guitars, Up to 3 Horns, Up to 3 Vocalists. 12 people maximum, on occasion.

2.) Venues:
Small to Medium clubs, banquet halls, and similar, Up to 500-600 people on occasion. Maybe an outdoor concert once in awhile for up to 1000 people.

3.) Music / Style:
From Hard / Heavy Rock to Light Jazz

4.) Budget:
There is no way I can go over $5000, hopefully LESS (One can always hope, can't they?) Is this doable?


Will a 20 to 24 channel mixer do it? Power amps? Speakers? Crossovers? Rack Signal Processing? Please, your suggestions will be appreciated. Please feel free to name brands, and to add anything else I may have forgotten to mention. Thanks in advance!
 
If your not a newbie to live sound I think you know the answer.
Can you do it under $5000 for all of the above jobs ? Yeah, if you buy crap equipment.

Start small but with quality. Get a pair of EAW's. a good power amp and a decent board. You'll be much happier in the end. If you have a big gig rent.

Good luck
 
zbert,

Thanks much--I agree 100% on your suggestion to buy quality--I'm with ya.

What board? Which power amp? Anything else? Anybody else?
 
You might not like this much, but I would definitely say rent for the first few gigs. You'll get back the cost of the rental in more cost effective equipment purchases, and unless you are significantly more experienced than your post implies (apologies if you are) you'll learn a bundle.

There is no way you'll put together a good 5kW rig for $5k, unless you get some (very) good used buys which will take time.

Not trying to pour cold water, but live sound is not that straightforward and if you get it wrong the band will HATE you.

(By the way if you decide to go ahead anyway the biggest omission from your list was foldback.)
 
Garry Sharp said:
(By the way if you decide to go ahead anyway the biggest omission from your list was foldback.)
Click to expand...

If you're going to be tossing cue mixes around on the stage with a big band, it ain't gonna be cheap. How many monitor mixes can you put together for a live band? Do you pump a lot of returns out? I've never thought that one through.
 
That budget is going to be tough. Do you already have mics and stands? That could eat up a grand or two easy.

To get you started something like a Mackie 1604 and some JBL 15" Eons for mains and some of their 10" for monitors would be half decent and easy to setup. Then add some powered subs. That would easily handle small club gigs.

For outdoor shows for 1000 people your going to need a serious system.
 
Treeline said:
How many monitor mixes can you put together for a live band? Do you pump a lot of returns out? I've never thought that one through.
Click to expand...

Your limited by the number of Aux sends on the main board. For big shows they split all the mics and send a copy to a seperate monitor mixing board off to the side of the stage. For most club systems you're lucky to get 4 seperate monitor mixes.

It is expensive because each seperate mix is essentially another PA system with it's own power and cabinets.
 
Treeline - yeah, like Tex said, 4 monitor mixes seems the max, which I should think would be fine for most bands.
 
Garry Sharp said:
Treeline - yeah, like Tex said, 4 monitor mixes seems the max, which I should think would be fine for most bands.
Click to expand...

Four monitor mixes would be plenty for me... I have a hard enough time with one! :D

My small (12 ch) mixer has four aux sends, but they will affect the main mix. I'm hesitant to use them for monitors; I go with the utility outs instead because I can fool with the level separately from the main mix. That gives me at most two monitor mixes. So maybe the foldback issue could be addressed with powered monitors for whomever needs them - maybe send the aux outs to a small mixer with its own buss for handling levels separate from the submix. That might preserve and still control the four monitor mixes.

So far I've been lucky - my venues have been small enough so I don't really need monitors. I've thought about getting a couple of small personal monitors to mount on mic stands and try that approach. Anyone have any stories to share about that idea?
 
Tree,

I've had success in the past using 2 small mic stand-mounted powered monitors, 1 for the drummer and the other for vocalist & horn player (about $125 ea., can't remember the make) out of a smallish 8-channel powered PA head. In-ear monitoring seems to be liked by some---I keep hearing about them.

Wow! This is great stuff so far. Thanks for the great advice & suggestions. Plese keep 'em comin'!
 
Treeline - You need a mixer with more Prefader sends so the mix doesn't affect the monitor level. That's one of the big differences between a live mixer and a recording mixer. Usually live boards have more Prefader Aux sends.

Those hot spot types of monitors are okay if the performer doesn't have to move their head. They can sound a bit tinny but you do hear what is going on in the mids and highs. The powered JBL Eons are cool monitors (better than they are as mains). They just came out with a new line of them so you can get the older gray ones pretty cheap.
 
live drums...gates! gates! gates!

A typical 4 piece band wants 4 seperate monitor mixes (more me) that's 4 wedges and 4 power amps to feed them.
 
LemonTree said:
live drums...gates! gates! gates!

A typical 4 piece band wants 4 seperate monitor mixes (more me) that's 4 wedges and 4 power amps to feed them.
Click to expand...


(Sigh). Another two thousand bucks...
 
A typical 4 piece band wants 4 seperate monitor mixes (more me) that's 4 wedges and 4 power amps to feed them
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. Guitar and bass can just stand closer to their backline. Putting bass through the foldback wrecks the sound anyway. And you can ALWAYS hear the guitar on stage:rolleyes:
 
Bump.

Okay folks....
If ya had a 5 to 6 piece band, $5,000 max to invest in a PA system that would allow some future room to grow, which makes / models of the following might ya go for?

mixer (16 channel min.)
power amp(s)
monitors
monitor amp(s)
rack processors/effects

I'm pretty well set with a selection of Shure SM57's & 58's, drum
mikes, and stands. Suggestions much appreciated -- this stuff is killin' my already feeble brain.
 
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