help me put some bass in my bass...

  • Thread starter Thread starter maryslittlesecret
  • Start date Start date
M

maryslittlesecret

New member
Howdy, all. I'm wondering what I can do to get a solid rock bass sound (fat and warm, but still tight) without an amp to record through. I have a pretty nice bass (Ibanez SG 5 string), but I'm limited for recording gear -- I'm currently going through my guitar POD 2.0, but I also have a fair amount of plug-ins and outboard FX to tweak the sound...

I'm getting a decent tone, but there's no real low-end to it. Could someone please give me some tips on EQ, compression, or whatever else might help me get that big rock bass sound. The bass tone I'm currently after can be heard in tracks by the band Sw1tched at http://www.mp3.com/sw1tched

Thanks for your help.

J


P.S. If you want to hear the bass sound I'm trying to improve upon, you can check any of our tracks at http://www.mp3.com/30SoS
 
Hmmm... this is just asuggestion, like everything i say, let other people agree or disagree with me first!

Try boosting at around 300Hz, and also running your bass through a compressor.

The 300Hz may help in the 'fake bass' area, and the compressor (at around 3:1 if I remember rightly) will fatten things up a bit.

Don't forget to use a noise gate before you get to the compressor. Otherwise, you may get quite a noisy signal when your not playing.

Just opinion, i can be wrong....

d
 
maryslittlesecret said:
Howdy, all. I'm wondering what I can do to get a solid rock bass sound

I have had good results using a Sans Amp bass Driver, going into a JoeMeek VC1q at a "moderate" setting.

SteveZ
Click to expand...
 
Yea, change your strings, for one. 9 times out of 10 it really is as simple as that. Get something thincker and more metallic sounding. Run that through a D.I. box or an ART Tube MP. Don't laugh - as bad of a rap as it gets, it's great on bass guitar.

During mixdown, I would suggest, if you have it available, the Maxx Bass or similar bass-enhancer plugin. Other than that, it could be that the guitar is treading all over the bass and giving it no room to breath. On your mix, the guitar had too much low end in it, and that should be cut or rolled off at around 200 hz.

By the way, the low end you're after should be more in the 100 hz range and maybe lower - not 300.
 
ahh....

if you're plugging bass into a guitar pod pro and wondering where the low end is going, it's probably the pod. you should use the BASS pod pro for bass guitar.

bypass the pod and just DI the bass into your recorder. i wouldn't run bass through a guitar processor unless it was intended for bass.
 
Thanks for all the input, everyone.

Rochey -- what's the signal chain there? EQ first, then noise gate and compress? Also, how about the remaining comp. settings (attack, release, etc.)?

Stevez -- thanks for the gear suggestions, but I'm hoping to fatten things up a bit with the gear I already have...

Chessrock -- thanks. that's a good point about the guitars crowding it. Still, I think when the bass is by itself it's not really all that 'bassy' (is that a word?). I'll try your EQ suggestions as well...

LongWave -- I actually tried the Bass POD as was relatively unimpressed (considering how much I LOVE my guitar POD. It really didn't sound that different... But if I want to bypass my POD, do I need to get a DI box or can I just go right into my sound card (WaMi Rack 24)?

Thanks again for all the suggestions -- keep 'em coming.

J
 
Rochey said:
Don't forget to use a noise gate before you get to the compressor.
d
Click to expand...

um, wouldn't a compressed sound gate more efficiently if you sent the compressed signal to a gate?
 
I had a lot of trouble getting good punch out of my SR500 Bass. I tried the POD thing also. When I had the bass i ending up just running the bass into a Tube Preamp into a Compressor (the the POD compressor) and then into the board. And boosting the drive to taste.

I ended up just dropping the sound, and went with synths instead. I think it fits my sound anyway. Good luck.

later,

john
 
How does your bass sound going through a guitar POD? Is there a big difference between that and the bass pod for a bass pre amp? We were thinking of combining a direct through a POD and a miced amp. Id rather use a Bass Pod, but we only have access to a Guitar Pod right now, we just want to warm up the bass tone since its going to be recorded on Digital tape.
 
I hated the sound of a bass through a guitar POD. The sound has no thump at all.

...thoughts that were probably not directed towards me, but I like to share...

john
 
I don't hate the sound of the bass through the POD. I like the fact that it gives it some personality -- everytime I try recording bass direct, it's such a plain, lifeless tone. However, sondriven is right -- there's no real thump or deep bass to it (hence my question) ;)

Any other thoughts or suggestions?

J
 
I listened to some of those of those Sw1tched MP3's but I can't get much of a handle on a bass tone. Anyway, a few ideas:

You're probably not too eager to invest in another amp modeler after being disappointed with the POD, but the Johnson J-Station does bass amp models pretty well (I hear its better than the POD w/ bass), and tends to give everything a huge low end unless you intentionally tone it down. Its about half as much as a Bass POD...which would probably be a better solution since its made for bass. But I've only used the J-Station so I can't speak for it.

The Joe Meek preamps make good bass DI's...not sure if the sound is what you're looking for. FWIW, you can listen to a VC6Q in action - you can really hear the bass about 1:48-2:10.

Also, as mentioned above, you might try to get a decent sound recorded, and then tweak the bass of the bass with a subharmonic synthesizer plugin.
 
By putting a noise gate in before the compressor, you stop any noise going through to the compressor.

When silence occurs, some of the cheaper 'automatic' compressors put gain on the noise as well. Bass guitars (or maybe it's just my one) are quite noisy, so cutting the noise when your not playing could be an advantage.

Also, by boosting the 100Hz region, surely, the bass starts competing with the bass drum. by boosting at around 300Hz, your actually boosting the second harmonic of the bass, but i think you'll find that it cuts through the mix a little better and finds it's own 'space' in the songs frequency spectrum.

Changing strings is a definate. Don't even think about going for thin slappers strings (yes, you all know who you are!!) - I always found that Rotosound's are pretty good for that deep 'rock' sound. Stay away from 'Elites' -- they are a slappers delight, and they turn dull within 2 weeks.


I would personally DI the bass into your gate, then the compressor (not too much compression) and then into your recorder. Then, when your mixing down, add a touch of EQ at around 300hz (I read somewhere 400Hz!!!!) and compress some more. The idea is, that you get the most unaffected signal as possible into your recorder, and then mess with the signal on mixdown.

if you want a good place to start with EQ's - take a look at this http://recordingeq.com/images/20a.gif

it's really really good, and gives you a rough idea of where to start with EQ.

good luck

d
 
Yeah, I agree with a post that says to layer a synthesizer harmonic underneath the bass youre trying to record. Or just layer the bass with a plain bass synth for extra kick.
 
I guess we could try to find a bass pod. We might just mix in more of the bass cab since its a tube amp. Its a Hartke though. I have grown to hate Hartke, but its an swr cabinet which sounds not bad. Our Bass player doesnt know tone from a hole in the ground but hes slowly learning.
 
Harmonics are the key

A clean harmonic structure above the fundamental note reinforces the fundamental and gives the impression of deeper more solid bass. [Has to do with a psychoacoustic effect where the brain can actually invent a missing fundamental note when presented with just the harmonics]

I've had luck doing it this way. I run a duplicate bass track and sharply filter out the frequencies above about 100Hz leaving just the fundamental notes. Then I run this signal through a harmonizer and mix just the harmonics back in with the original bass line. Not too much, just a little. This adds a lot of authority and depth to the bass line. The though part is getting the harmonizer settings right so they don't come out all garbled. I use Waves UltraPitch.

barefoot
 
Okay, so I've been looking at the Behringer DI box which seems like a good deal, but after reading a bit, I'm wondering if I should also be recording my keyboard through a DI box? I'm going directly into my soundcard currently... Sorry if this is a silly questions, but I'm a bit of a novice with this stuff.

The reason I ask is that there's a rack version that has four DIs for $99 -- if it'll improve my keyboard sound as well as my bass, I'd spend the extra $60. Let me know you thoughts...

J
 
DI's like the Behringer DI100 are mainly intended for plugging high impedence sources into line level inputs or for balancing an unbalanced line so you can send it a long distance without interference. Bass and some keyboards fall into the category of high impedence sources, but for recording, you're going to want to amplify your signal as well, so you're hitting the converters with a nice hot signal. With this in mind, I'd probably opt for something like a basic preamp....ART Tube MP and M-Audio Audio Buddy come to mind. It actually looks like the 4-channel Behringer has a +20 dB gain switch, so it would probably work OK, but I'd much prefer a more flexible gain adjustment.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top