Help Me Out...

J

Jeroth

New member
Hi everyone, ive posted on this forum a while back about getting into home recording, but i never seemed to get anywhere, probably because i had a tiny budget (1 day a week job, with bad pay). Well, im still at school, but got myself a job as a driver for Domino's, and working 5 nights a week, so i can finaly afford to seriously look at getting into recording. Heres an outline of what i want to do, and how i want to do it:

I want to record a standard 5 piece drum kit, electric guitar and bass guitar, not vocals at the moment.

Not looking at doing live recording, so ill be recording drums, then bass, then guitar, and then some added effects last (proly using my turntables), all recording seperately.

Im only looking at using hardware (digital or anolog), and not interested in using computers and software.

Im on a low busget, proly arround AU$3500 for everything you guys recommend (thats about US$2000).

Right now im only looking for advice on what i should do, not specific brands and model numbers as of yet, heres what my thoughts are:

I thought that I should get myself a drum mic kit( 6 mics, 3 tom/snare mics, 1 kick mic and 2 overheads). Then get myself 2 x 4 channel mic pre-amps(have an extra channel on each just in case). Then get a mixer, proly about 8-12 channels, and lastly a simple digital multi-tracker(about 4 channels, one for the drum track, 1 for the bass track and one for the guitar track, and an extra one for other stuff, maybe vocals when i decide to experiment with that. As for recording guitar and bass, i have all the gear for that already, just need something to run them into(such as the mixer which i mentioned above), i have the guitar, cables, pre-amps, effect etc, so just looking at the actual RECORDING GEAR.

So what do you think?
 
You will need a better job, first.

Look at it this way, Jeroth.
An economy car will get you from point 'A' to point 'B'.
A high dollar car will get you from point 'A' to point 'B'.

I like what you say about not wanting brands right now.
Use this time to shop around, check out gear and find out 'what' a piece of gear can do, beside what you are looking at in it. A versitile piece of gear will save you bucks in the long run. The budget you've listed can get you some fairly good gear.
Remember, you don't need the high dollar car to get where you wanna go. Until, you can afford it and getting where you want to go will reap some dividends.

Your one of the first I've come across that has their future mapped out. I admire that quality.
Good luck, Jeroth. :)
 
Okay then, that's all cool.
How bout you run a DRUM MIC KIT (6 mics) into the 2 X 4 channel pre's then from there directly into a Stand alone digital recorder like the Roland's or Foxtex's etc.

I think you'd be happier keeping the individual drum mics tracked seperately rather then mixing them all down to one track. And also if you just got a 4 track, that what you're limited too. Where as for $3500 au you could get a decent 8 track recorder and your Pre's and probably a shure drum mic kit.
Shure Drum Mic Kit - $800
Foxtex 8 track - $2000
2x 4 ch pre - $700

Total - $3500au

that's what i'd be doing if i were you, you also then have access to many effects without the need for external racks etc.
And you have 4 more tracks then you were saying. Extra tracks are always handy
Scott
 
Scott Mellish said:
Okay then, that's all cool.
How bout you run a DRUM MIC KIT (6 mics) into the 2 X 4 channel pre's then from there directly into a Stand alone digital recorder like the Roland's or Foxtex's etc.

I think you'd be happier keeping the individual drum mics tracked seperately rather then mixing them all down to one track. And also if you just got a 4 track, that what you're limited too. Where as for $3500 au you could get a decent 8 track recorder and your Pre's and probably a shure drum mic kit.
Shure Drum Mic Kit - $800
Foxtex 8 track - $2000
2x 4 ch pre - $700

Total - AU$3500

that's what i'd be doing if i were you, you also then have access to many effects without the need for external racks etc.
And you have 4 more tracks then you were saying. Extra tracks are always handy
Scott
Click to expand...

Thanks badgas for the very good response, its good when people give very thoughtful responses that actually mean something. Scott Mellish, thats bassically what my plan was, although i would proly still wanna go through the mixer (maybe the mixer could be the last purchase, as its not a necessity), because it would allow me to really shape the sound of each individual track into what i want. As you can see, i really like the idea of buying equipment which was made for one purpose, not something that can do more than one thing, so a dedicated mixer, running into a recording unit that is used for all recording, editing etc, and not relying on that to act as a mixer too, know what i mean. So would it be pointless to eventually add a mixer, or will it add some advantages. As i said, maybe itll be the last purchase. Thanks again for the quick reply's. Any more idea's?
 
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Screw the 'Drum Pack' and just get some good mics that will work for everything. The only mic that is really specific to micing drums is the kick mic. Everything else is just regular mics. With mics you can save up and build your collection as you go. The mic forum has a lot of cheap mic suggestions.

Spend the bulk of your initial budget on the core setup. Find a decent little mixer and recorder that you can afford and build up from there. I would start with something like a Spirit M8 or Mackie 1402.
 
That sounds like a good idea actually, i also thought that buying individual mics would offer more flexibility for recording other stuff like acoustic guitar etc. So you would suggest getting some good mics and run them through pre-amps into the mixer and into the recording unit?, thats what i was initially going to do. Has anyone else got any ideas or input into this topic?? Thanks for the good reply's so far by the way.
 
Jeroth,

Where in Australia are you? Sydney?

Anyway... just a suggestion, have you looked at the AW16G by Yamaha. If you are looking at producing music and not using the computer, this unit will give you the ability to output your tracks onto a CD... and the price isn't too bad. It sells at Venue Music for about $3000 (but knowing them you could talk them down and for cash even more...). I know that doesn't give you much for microphones, however that unit, unlike the Roland Unit's doesn't compress the tracks. It has dynamics on all channels (8 tracks with 144 virtual tracks), effects and 'studio-quality mastering effects' according to their (Yamaha's) web site. It looks like it has 8 simultaneous inputs with Phantom power on two. Here is the specs page: http://www.aw4416.com/e/16g/spec/index.html Others correct me if I'm wrong, but with this device you wouldn't need to get a Pre-amp's just yet..

As for Microphones, this comes down to how much you want to spend. What other instruments other than drums are you looking at recording? Personally I'm a fan of Rode Microphones.. I've got an NT-2, NT-3 and plan on getting a pair of NT-5's. At the moment I don't have the need to record a drum kit, however as Tex said, you should look at getting a kick mic then get other mic's you can use not only for drums but for other instruments (such as the NT-5's) but there are a lot of choices and the Mic Forum would be a better location to ask those questions.

With this solution, the Microphones might throw you off budget, but it would be a nice set up.

Porter
 
im in perth, not sydney, that does look like a really good recorder, but its WAY out of my budget, im looking at spend au$1500 to AU$2000 at the MOST on a recording unit. The mics i would be looking at are proly in the price rang of the NT-3, and i will only be using mics to record acoustic guitar(this will be done at a later stage) and drums, no vocals for now, and ill be running my electric guitar direct, so i dont need to mic the amp. All in all, i need:

a mixer

a recording unit of some kind (like a multi tracker, any other options btw?)

and mics to record the drums

I could get a mixer with built in pre's and use those till i can upgrade to some dedicate pre-amps, so i supose those arent a necessity, or is it?

So far, that SoundCraft mixer looks like it is PERFECT and looks like it could go a long way before i NEED to upgrade to something bigger and better. Im still looking at multi-track recorders and cant really decide, anyone got advice or have any other alternatives? As for mics, when ive decided on the main part of the system, ill go into the mic forum and ask arround there. So what suggestions have u guys got for the mixer, recorder and pre's(if i need them). BTW, im only looking to record Drums, Electric Guitar (running direct, no mics) and Bass Guitar (running direct, no mics), ill look into recording acoustic once i have everything i need to get a good sound from drums elec guitar and bass.

Thanks,
jeroth
 
Just been looking at multi trackers and noticed that most of them(Boss, Fostex etc) only allow you to record about 2 tracks simultaniously, wont this be a problem for recording a drum kit which will require a track per mic, or do i just run the mics through the mixer and mix them to a single track into the recorder, what to do??
 
Jeroth,

That one of the reasons I suggested that unit... or something similar to it.

Porter
 
Sorry... should add.. with 8 tracks, you can 'bounce' 6 down to 2, meaning you can EQ and have greater control after you have recorded them. If you have a mixer, you can mix all mic's down to 2 tracks in the tracking stage, however you won't have the control over them later in the mixing process.

Porter
 
hmmmm, im still lost. All i want to know is, how th hell am i sposed to record a rum kit using about 4 to 6 mics, if i can only record 2 tracks at once?, the only way i can think of it is to mix the mics into 2 tracks through the mixer and then record the drums as 2 tracks, am i right, or is it just that i need a better multi tracker(or different recording ide) to record a full drum kit at once. PLEASE HELP ME!
 
The Tascam 244 allows you to record all four tracks at once, but then you have to bounce out to another machine and back again to one or two tracks.
 
Jeroth said:
hmmmm, im still lost. All i want to know is, how th hell am i sposed to record a rum kit using about 4 to 6 mics, if i can only record 2 tracks at once?, the only way i can think of it is to mix the mics into 2 tracks through the mixer and then record the drums as 2 tracks, am i right, or is it just that i need a better multi tracker(or different recording ide) to record a full drum kit at once. PLEASE HELP ME!
Click to expand...

With your budget you will have to make compromises. Recorders that can handle more than two tracks at a time are more expensive. I wouldn't plan on having 4-6 mikes either. At best you can get a decent all in one box and a couple mics.

What kind of music are you doing? Depending on the style you can get away with 2-3 drum mics pretty easily.
 
Mainly gonna be doing rock music, and quite a bit of experimental type stuff, just trying to expiriment with music and sound. so would you reccommend using 4 to 6 mics and mixing the drums into 2 tracks on the multi tracker, or just using 2 or 3 mics. i dont think it would be that bad to mix all the mics into 2 tracks, ill just have to make sure i get all the eq and volume settings for each mics on the mixer as good as i can, so that it requires very little editing afterwards. what do u guys rekon?
 
Jeroth said:
Hi everyone, ive posted on this forum a while back about getting into home recording, but i never seemed to get
Click to expand...

see, this i what im talking about, please can somone help me out, any advice or anything.
 
Jeroth said:
i dont think it would be that bad to mix all the mics into 2 tracks, ill just have to make sure i get all the eq and volume settings for each mics on the mixer as good as i can, so that it requires very little editing afterwards. what do u guys rekon?
Click to expand...

That is exactly what you will need to do with only recording two tracks at a time. In order to get the best sounding drums with the limits of your equipment you will need to make sure the drums you record will fit best with the sounds of your bass and guitar. Therefore, I suggest the following:

1. Record a rough track of drums to one track. No need to have it sound good. You just need something to play other instruments against.
2. Record a rough track of bass and guitar to one track each.
3. Set up your drums and your mics for the final recording of drums. Have the outputs of the mics go into the mixer and have the two master outs of the mixer go into your recorder.
4. Play against the rough takes of the bass and guitar (recording over your rough track in step 1 and a fresh track), listen to the playback and make adjustments that you think you will need (you can do this by taking the outputs of the recorder and putting them in the mixer. Leave the eq of the bass and guitar at zero, but adjust the drums until they sound as good as possible. This will give you the eq settings you will need for your drums under their current setup).

Once the settings for drums are right, set up your drums as in step 3. You will now have the best sound possible of recording those drums only on two tracks.

Hope this helps,

Cy
 
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