Help in selecting SDC omni

J

j0nas

New member
Hi,

I plan to buy a pair of SDCs for use in a decca tree configuration (2 SDCs + 1 LDC). I live in Europe, so I mostly find http://www.thomann.de/index.html?partner_id=97926 to be cheapest store around.

Which one of the three mics below would you buy and why?

Thanks.


1) AT-4022 (399 euro)
2) Beyerdynamic MC-910 (355 euro)
3) AKG SE300B + AKG CK92 (331 euro (169 + 162))
(above prices from http://www.thomann.de/index.html?partner_id=97926)


AT-4022
http://recordinghacks.com/microphones/Audio-Technica/AT4022
Sensitivity: 19.9 mV/Pa
Self-noise: 13 dB(A)

MC-910
http://recordinghacks.com/microphones/beyerdynamic/MC-910
Sensitivity: 25 mV/Pa
Self-noise: 18 dB(A)

SE300B and CK92
http://www.akg.com/site/products/powerslave,id,231,pid,231,nodeid,2,_language,EN.html
http://www.akg.com/site/products/powerslave,id,233,pid,233,nodeid,,_language,EN.html
Sensitivity: 10 mV/Pa
Self-noise: 17 dB(A)
 
4022's - higher spl tolerance and lower noise floor.

MC910's at one time, but not enough SPL for my uses. And higher noise floor for roughly the same as 4022's price wise. Depending on where you live of course.

MK-012's?

MKH 8020's?

Not really a fan of AKG or ADK, no particular reason. Aside from getting the two confused. And some web annoyances.

Other options with DPA, Schoeps, Earthworks, Shure, Neuman, Gefell, yadda yadda yadda...
 
Shadow_7 said:
4022's - higher spl tolerance and lower noise floor.

MC910's at one time, but not enough SPL for my uses. And higher noise floor for roughly the same as 4022's price wise. Depending on where you live of course.
Click to expand...

Thanks for you input. For my application, the lower SPL handling would probably not be an issue (recording chamber music)... but still a good point...

Shadow_7 said:
MK-012's?

MKH 8020's?

Not really a fan of AKG or ADK, no particular reason. Aside from getting the two confused. And some web annoyances.

Other options with DPA, Schoeps, Earthworks, Shure, Neuman, Gefell, yadda yadda yadda...
Click to expand...

I have heard not so good things about the Oktavas.

MKH 8020, DPA and so on are way out of my league (can spend 400 euros, the most).
 
I'm a bit confused about the difference between a true condenser and an electret condenser.

Only MC910 is said to be a true condenser of these three mics. Will that matter in my case or in any other case?

Thanks.
 
An electret condenser has a capsule with a polarized backing plate. A true condenser requires power from the head amplifier to charge and polarize the backing plate, an electret doesn't.

It doesn't really mean a whole lot in terms of sound quality. Both types can sound great although an electret can eventually lose its charge, maybe after a couple of decades or so.
 
They're all mics, they convert sound to electronic signals. There are differences, but in the larger scheme of things not that important depending on your application. Some importance with sensitivity to humidity, interference, noise floor and the likes.

Don't under estimate the SPL needs. And standing O with thunderous applause before the end of tune can otherwise ruin a great recording if your mic(s) can't handle it. Plus headroom issues. And someday you might want to / need to use the same rig on a rock concert. Or sporting event and somehow end up in front of the marching band seats. Or maybe you just want to really close mic a flute. SPL specs are measured at about 1 meter and might otherwise be overstated to start with. At 6" or less it's easy to push that limit. More so in a performance situation where you might be trying to balance to 100+ other musicians. Or half a million spectators. Or a train, jet, and other surprises.
 
snow lizard said:
It doesn't really mean a whole lot in terms of sound quality. Both types can sound great although an electret can eventually lose its charge, maybe after a couple of decades or so.
Click to expand...

Hmm... That's what I've heard too. So, if I go for the AT4022 mic, it will sooner or later lose its pre-charged electret... That's why I was hoping people here would speak good about MC910 (true condenser).
 
Thanks for the input so far...

Just to summarize:

AT4022 (electret) in favor to MC910 because its higher spl tolerance and lower noise floor.
AKG SE300B+CK92 (electret) no opinions?!?


Thanks.
 
Shadow_7 said:
Don't under estimate the SPL needs. And standing O with thunderous applause before the end of tune can otherwise ruin a great recording if your mic(s) can't handle it. Plus headroom issues. And someday you might want to / need to use the same rig on a rock concert. Or sporting event and somehow end up in front of the marching band seats. Or maybe you just want to really close mic a flute. SPL specs are measured at about 1 meter and might otherwise be overstated to start with. At 6" or less it's easy to push that limit. More so in a performance situation where you might be trying to balance to 100+ other musicians. Or half a million spectators. Or a train, jet, and other surprises.
Click to expand...

Ok, you're probably right. Thanks.
 
The traditional mic. for a Decca Tree (the one Decca used) was the original Neumann M50.

m50_P.jpg


This microphone had the capsule mounted in a small ball.

M150_01_05_P.jpg


This configuration is currently in three Neumann microphones:-

M 150 Tube

TLM 50

and the KK 133 which screws to the KM-A or KM-D modules.

Although not pictured, the KK 133 comes complete with a ball that puts the diaphragm on the surface of the ball. This is the cheapest way to get a Neumann of this ball type.

As far as I am aware, all these microphones (including the original M 50) have a titanium diaphragm and are not cheap.

A slightly cheaper way is to get a stereoset of KM 183 (or 183-A or 183-D) plus an extra for the centre and get three SBK 130 A balls for them.

sbk130.gif


I hope this helps.
 
Well designed electrets of today will hold their charge a lot longer. It's the older ones that are fast faders. My STO-2's are eletret afaik. Bought used, and used by me 3+ years now. Still just as good as the day I got them. Not that I use this stuff often enough to justify any of it's value. But it was almost all bought used, so it should hold most of it's value. So long term (aside from all the accessories) it'll probably costs me $500 in depreciation over 5+ years, for $3K-ish total big dollar gear items.

Cheaper than financing a car. My $12,500 car is now < $5K in blue book value. With probably $2K in interest charges over a 4 year loan. So if I sold it tomorrow, $9.5K in losses over five years. Plus the gas and tires and oil changes and insurance and registration and safety inspections and speeding tickets, and ... They should change those signs. Instead of DWI you can't afford it, to Driving you can't afford it.
 
Shadow_7 said:
Cheaper than financing a car. My $12,500 car is now < $5K in blue book value. With probably $2K in interest charges over a 4 year loan. So if I sold it tomorrow, $9.5K in losses over five years. Plus the gas and tires and oil changes and insurance and registration and safety inspections and speeding tickets, and ... They should change those signs. Instead of DWI you can't afford it, to Driving you can't afford it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, cars s-ck in that way... cars are not an investment :(

I really fine mic will probably hold its value over time (if you pick the right one). But I can't afford better mics than I listed previously (400 euro).
 
Consider a pair of Studio Projects C-4's. I know they are sold in England, have omni and cardioid capsules. and make a pretty good remote stereo pair, so I'm betting they would perform well in a Decca tree. The price for a pair is very reasonable, at least on the other side of the pond.-Richie
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top