Help in buying first deck......

  • Thread starter Thread starter treidm
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treidm

treidm

Spinning Wheels
I want a 1/4" deck.
Here are the features I'm interested in, but not limited to, as I learn more:

7.5/15ips or 15/30ips (I realize the latter is unlikely)
1/2 track
10.5 reels
NAB EQ standard
XLR or TRS, Balanced +4dBu, Inputs & Outputs (If possible)
Semi-portable (not one the size of a stove) :D
Edit mode if possible
Return to zero function
Digital counter prefered over a mechanical one
Tape dump function
Prefer not to buy Japan made decks


Possible example below:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...MEWA:IT&viewitem=&item=120081932164&rd=1&rd=1

Need to know what is thought of this deck, by those in the know, please.
Also what should be the going rate for a deck of this kind?

I asked about heads, this was their response:

ebay seller said:
"I am sorry we couldn't get a picture of the heads online in time, however they have been checked and are in very good condition no scratches or dings. This piece is very clean!"
Any answers soon, would be appreciated, I may bid on it, if it stays under $450, and the consensus is that it is worth it.

Any other suggestions welcome. Please be specific with Brand & Model #'s, I am new to Reel to Reel.

Thanks.............................................
:)



Note: To be honest, I was given a cheaper deck, that isn't going to work out that well, so I didn't count it as my first.
 
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If it were me, I'd get it. I knew I should have got one of those instead of the B77.

One point to note is that there are an awful lot of B77s and PR99s out there so spare parts are unlikely to be a problem into the future. Also, with the possible exception of the control PROM, they are pretty much bog-standard late 1970s electronics. Very little custom stuff and no microprocessor which makes them easier to repair.
 
Please notice these pic's & tell me if I'm seeing this right.

Notice in pic's 1 & 2 (Which is this deck, in question)
The Power switch seems to be pressed "in" & glowing "orange", as if power is on, but counter is off.

Then look at pic's A & B (A different MKIII deck)
A shows power switch depressed & off.
B shows power switch pressed & glowing, like 1 & 2, but now the counter is fired up.

Does this mean that something is wrong with deck?
Or is there another switch to activate other functions, or am I seeing this wrong?
 

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I am just guessing here but I would say the switch glow is a mechanical indicator. And is like that when the switch is pressed in. In picture one the machine is not even plugged in.
Also You mention you dont want a Japanese machines. I dont know why you would pass on some great units that parts are easy to get.
Also why do you want balanced in? That feature does not ad to quality of sound. Unless you already have exspensive preamps that only have balanced out.
 
Herm said:
Also You mention you dont want a Japanese machines. I dont know why you would pass on some great units that parts are easy to get.
Also why do you want balanced in? That feature does not ad to quality of sound. Unless you already have exspensive preamps that only have balanced out.

Testify!
Tascam, Akais, and Fostex can be righteous little machines.
You don't need balanced in, I thought I did, but you quickly find out that it's not a big deal when you deal with line level. If you're dealing with XLR you're at the mercy of a bunch of things such as how good the input/output transformers are. 6 feet of RCA cable never hurt anyone.
 
If you're dealing with XLR you're at the mercy of a bunch of things such as how good the input/output transformers are
Neither XLR nor balanced inputs or outputs require transformers, but they're a common inexpensive way to do certain things. If you do the cabling right, you can even benefit (in some cases) from a balanced input fed from an unbalanced output. I would concur however that going for balanced ins and outs does not necessarily buy you anything in a home studio.

My opinion of of Tascam was higher before I started working there in the early 1980's, but that's not to say I would never own one. After seeing the incredible Ampex ATR-100, I was disappointed to see the ATR-700 which was just a private-labeled TEAC. My opinion of Nagra went way up when I had the chance to do a little work on one (actually a modification for a special application, not a repair). I don't have any experience with Studers, but I know they have an excellent professional reputation.
 
Herm said:
You mention you dont want a Japanese machines. I dont know why you would pass on some great units that parts are easy to get.
It is a preference I have aquired later in life. I am Union and now, have thought about many things concerning fair labor practices , human rights, air & water pollution standards etc...world wide.

I have no problem with any country that has a good Union presence (ex. Germany, Switzerland, Holland/Belgium(Netherlands), France, Canada etc..), or a country that has a good track record on human rights, workers rights, air & water pollution standards etc...

Japan, China etc... Do not have a good track record on the above mentioned, and are EXTREMELY ANTI-Union and deny the workers a right to collectively bargain, deny overtime, overwork, and sometimes use CHILD labor and abuse women workers more then their male counterparts.

The only power available to me, to protest against a country is, to NOT buy products made in their country.

I have in the past, to "save money", done this, but try not to, now.
And some products like VCR's, TV's, very hard to find anything not from one of the PAC rim country's. So I'm forced into those, but if I have a choice, I choose or prefer to choose this way.


You may not understand my stance or just disagree with it, but that's what I believe to be true, in my reality.

And that's all I've got to say about that. :)

Herm said:
Also why do you want balanced in? That feature does not ad to quality of sound. Unless you already have exspensive preamps that only have balanced out.
Hmmm, since I will be using this as a mixdown master deck, not a multi-track deck, I'm not sure why you brought up my pre-amps?
But if you must know, yes my Focusrite & UA pre-amps were very expensive & they have balanced(+4dBu and -10 dBV switchable) outputs.

The analog board I will be feeding the RtR with does have +4dBu, balanced, XLR & TRS outputs, though.

I also said, "(If possible)". What I mean by, if possible, is I wont let this one factor determine my purchase, but I prefer it.
There are always work-arounds in electronics. I'm an Industrial Union Electrician specializing in control work & work with PLC's alot, so very used to doing work-arounds with cables, converters x-fmrs etc.., for impedence, capacitance, voltages etc.. if needed. My cabling is very good.
__________________________________________




Whew!, now back to my post.......
Would like opinions about this deck or others that meet my wants, with exception to those marked (If possible) as a must. :)




..
 
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I still say bite the bullett and get a nice Jap unit, a TASCAM 32-2 or 22-2. :D ;)
 
treidm: I think your biggest challenge is getting the recorder shipped safely to you. Too many damaged units packed by idiot sellers is all too common. Weigh this against getting a "local pickup" unit, which I highly recommend.
 
cjacek said:
treidm: I think your biggest challenge is getting the recorder shipped safely to you. Too many damaged units packed by idiot sellers is all too common. Weigh this against getting a "local pickup" unit, which I highly recommend.

That is a VERY good point, which I hadn't given that much weight to, yet.
Thanks for bringing that up.

I think that would be a smart move on my part, but I'm not really known for that. :D

But in the meantime, I can still try and narrow down my choices of the decks that fit my needs and budget for now.
 
treidm said:
That is a VERY good point, which I hadn't given that much weight to, yet.
Thanks for bringing that up.

I think that would be a smart move on my part, but I'm not really known for that. :D

But in the meantime, I can still try and narrow down my choices of the decks that fit my needs and budget for now.

If shipping is your only option then have the recorder properly crated (after being boxed) for the trip and shipped via truck. It will be more expensive but chances of damage are much less. I would only do this, however, if I know for a fact that the recorder is in fine operating condition. Otherwise, you'll lose crating and shipping charges, which may be in the hundreds. If, on the other hand, you feel you can cut some costs, shipping it via USPS or the many courier services, can trust the seller to pack so that the recorder can withstand a 6 foot drop, on any corner, repeatedly, then go for it. Packing is more like a science and unfortunately more people get it wrong than right.

Now, if you really insist on normal, yet effective packing & shipping, then at least have the packer follow this:

http://www.angelfire.com/electronic2/vintagetx/AINFORMATION.html

Note, in the photo, the styrofoam panels, thick bubble wrap and peanuts.
 
Herm said:
Also why do you want balanced in? That feature does not ad to quality of sound.

I have slowly, over time, built my system to be a balanced system. Make most of the cables myself, some installed in bedroom walls.

It's all a personal choice, but I really get irritated, when people state things as if they were electrical theory facts, when they are not.

Balanced systems are not designed to add quality, only reduce any noise & interference.

Balanced is defined in terms of the impedance of the two signal conductors with respect to a reference, which is usually ground. If these impedances are equal and non-zero, the system is balanced. If the impedances are unequal the system is unbalanced. A signal conductor with a grounded return conductor is, therefore, an unbalanced (sometimes referred to as single ended) system. Now, A small, common-mode, 60 Hz noise, voltage can exist between the chassis of two AC powered devices regardless of whether they are safety grounded (use a three-wire plug) or not.

A problem occurs when there is a ground voltage (common-mode voltage) between the two interconnected devices. Because of this voltage, a small current will flow down the cable shield between the devices (often referred to as common-mode current, or as a ground loop current). If the cable shield were ideal (zero impedance) this current would not cause a problem. However, since the shield has a finite resistance, a small noise voltage will appear across the length of the cable shield. The magnitude of this voltage will equal the common-mode current times the shield resistance. This voltage is in series with the signal voltage and will add directly to it at the receiver. In other words, an unbalanced interconnect system consisting of only two conductors (center conductor plus a shield) has no ability to reject common-mode noise voltages.

This coupling is referred to as common-impedance coupling, and is the result of the fact that in an unbalanced two-wire system the shield is performing two functions. It is a shield carrying the common-mode noise current, but it is also one of the signal conductors carrying the return signal current.

Example 1: Let’s consider a typical case of the interface between two grounded (3-prong AC plug) pieces of audio equipment. Some actual cases will be better than this example and some will be worse. The shield resistance of a fifteen-foot cable might be about 0.25 ohms. If the 60-Hertz shield current is 250 uA, the voltage developed across the shield will be 62.5 uV. For consumer audio products the reference signal level is about 300 mV (-10 dBV). The signal to noise ratio will be about 74 dB. For a high quality consumer audio system you would probably like the S/N ratio to be greater than 100 dB. Therefore, you would most likely be able to hear some 60-Hertz hum in quiet passages of the program material.

You might conclude at this point that ungrounded equipment, those using a 2-prong AC plug, might solve this problem by eliminating the ground connections. This often helps, but does not necessarily eliminate the problem. For ungrounded equipment the common-mode ground current can still flow through the inter-winding capacitance of the power transformer. The impedance of the capacitor will normally reduce the magnitude of the current (typically less than 100 uA), and hence the noise voltage, but some noise will still exist. Since the impedance of the inter-winding capacitance is frequency dependent, more current will flow at high frequencies (harmonics of 60 Hz) than at the fundamental frequency (60 Hz). Therefore, the interference will more likely consist of a high frequency buzz instead of a 60 Hz hum.

In a balanced interconnect system both of the signal conductors have an equal, and non-zero, impedance to ground. Therefore, three conductors are required, signal+, signal-, and ground or shield.

The three-conductor balanced interconnect system avoids the problem of the shield having to serve two purposes. The signal is now carried on the two internal conductors (sometimes twisted together) and the shield only acts as a shield and not also as a signal return conductor.

If you use twisted pair wiring you get another advantage.
Twisted pair wiring, even when unshielded, is very effective in reducing magnetic field coupling to and from the wire pair. There are only two conditions necessary for this to be true. First, the signal must flow equally, and in opposite directions, on the two conductors. Secondly, the length of the twist must be less than one twentieth of a wavelength at the frequencies of concern. (One twist per inch will be effective up to about 500 MHz).

The above is true whether the terminations are balanced or not. In addition, if the terminations are balanced, twisted pair wiring will also be effective in reducing electric field coupling to and from the wire pair.

Even though field coupling is not the primary noise coupling mechanism in audio systems, it is still a good practice to always twist the signal and return conductors in a cable. (Twisting is especially important in the case of very low-level microphone cables.)

A 60 Hz shield current flowing between two interconnected devices will still produces a voltage drop in the shield, but this noise voltage is not in series with the signal. Rather it will be coupled equally (as a common-mode noise voltage) into both signal conductors. Since the receiver looks at the difference between the two signal conductors (not the voltage between one of them and ground), the common-mode noise voltage cancels out and is not seen by the receiver.

A balanced interface theoretically would be completely immune to noise and interference. In practice, however, nothing is perfect. Even if we attempt to make the impedance of the two signal conductors to ground the same there will be some difference, if only a fraction of a percent, and this will limit the degree of common-mode voltage rejection and hence the maximum noise suppression possible.

Example 2: Let’s assume that the impedance balance is such that the circuit can provide 60 dB of common-mode noise rejection (an easily obtainable number) and that the other parameters are the same as in the previous example. (Note: a very well designed balanced interface can have as much as 80 to 100 dB of common-mode noise rejection.)

Since the shield resistance of a fifteen-foot cable is about 0.25 ohms and assuming the shield current is 250 uA, the voltage developed across the shield will be 62.5 uV (the same as in Example 1). This noise voltage is, however, not in series with the signal, rather it will couple as a common–mode noise voltage into the balanced circuit. Since (in our example) the balanced circuit has 60 dB of common-mode noise rejection, the noise voltage coupled into the receiver will be reduced by an additional 60 dB. Sixty dB represents a reduction of 1,000 to 1. Therefore the noise voltage coupled into the system will be only 0.063 uV (62.5 uV / 1,000). For the line level signal (300 mV) of Example 1, this represents a S/N ratio of 134 dB. We now have a very good quality audio system with the S/N ratio well above the desired 100 dB. Even for the case of a microphone level signal (3 mV) the S/N ratio is 114 dB, still a quite respectable number.

Note: In order for a balanced system to be effective in reducing common-mode noise not only must the interconnection cable be balanced, but the terminations must also be balanced.

Notice what happened in examples. For the case of the 300 mV line level signal, the unbalanced shielded cable of the first example provided a S/N ratio of 74 dB, and the balanced signal conductors of the second example reduced that noise by an additional 60 dB giving us the sum of the two or 134 dB for the overall S/N ratio.

Therefore we can conclude that for the situation described above, regardless of the signal level the balanced interface will have 60 dB (or more, depending upon the degree of balance achieved) less noise than the unbalanced interface.

Balanced vs. Unbalanced Cables

An unbalanced connector is made up of two pins. One carries the signal and the other is the shield or ground (reference point). If we were to look at this on an O-scope , we would see the ground, at 0, and the audio signal, which is the sine wave. This type of connector is susceptible to noise and interference.

A balanced connector consists of three wires. The first wire is the audio signal (sine wave), the second wire is the same signal(opposing sine wave) but out of phase with the first one, and the third is 0 on O-scope. The balanced connector is far less susceptible to noise. If interference were to affect this signal, it would on only one polarity, or only the audio signal. But in order for the Console to "see" the signal, it must be on both the sine waves, or on both polarities.


In closing. you personally may believe, that unbalanced is just as good or better. But the reality is, that it isn't.
You may not personally have issues with your system, if it is small and cables very short, and no ground loops are present.
Oh and you know the RCA connection was designed by "RCA" of course, 50 or 60 years ago, to be used for short interconnections between a turntable and amplifier INSIDE of a phonograph. It was originally intended ONLY for short cable runs within the same piece of equipment. Being an unbalanced system it is susceptible to common-mode noise voltages. But it has become a standard in consumer audio

Think about this:
If a noise problem did occur, while you were recording the PERFECT vocal take by a performer after 20 takes, and you got it!
Now you realize a noise problem has ruined the quieter passages. If you had a balanced system, with balanced cords, you may have avoided the problem.

Not sure this thread will ever stay on track... :D




Credit to H. Ott, for what I plagiarized off him. Did I spell "plagiarized" right?
 
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treidm said:
I have slowly, over time, built my system to be a balanced system. Make most of the cables myself, some installed in bedroom walls.

It's all a personal choice, but I really get irritated, when people state things as if they were electrical theory facts, when they are not.

Balanced systems are not designed to add quality, only reduce any noise & interference.

Balanced is defined in terms of the impedance of the two signal conductors with respect to a reference, which is usually ground. If these impedances are equal and non-zero, the system is balanced. If the impedances are unequal the system is unbalanced. A signal conductor with a grounded return conductor is, therefore, an unbalanced (sometimes referred to as single ended) system. Now, A small, common-mode, 60 Hz noise, voltage can exist between the chassis of two AC powered devices regardless of whether they are safety grounded (use a three-wire plug) or not.

A problem occurs when there is a ground voltage (common-mode voltage) between the two interconnected devices. Because of this voltage, a small current will flow down the cable shield between the devices (often referred to as common-mode current, or as a ground loop current). If the cable shield were ideal (zero impedance) this current would not cause a problem. However, since the shield has a finite resistance, a small noise voltage will appear across the length of the cable shield. The magnitude of this voltage will equal the common-mode current times the shield resistance. This voltage is in series with the signal voltage and will add directly to it at the receiver. In other words, an unbalanced interconnect system consisting of only two conductors (center conductor plus a shield) has no ability to reject common-mode noise voltages.

This coupling is referred to as common-impedance coupling, and is the result of the fact that in an unbalanced two-wire system the shield is performing two functions. It is a shield carrying the common-mode noise current, but it is also one of the signal conductors carrying the return signal current.

Example 1: Let’s consider a typical case of the interface between two grounded (3-prong AC plug) pieces of audio equipment. Some actual cases will be better than this example and some will be worse. The shield resistance of a fifteen-foot cable might be about 0.25 ohms. If the 60-Hertz shield current is 250 uA, the voltage developed across the shield will be 62.5 uV. For consumer audio products the reference signal level is about 300 mV (-10 dBV). The signal to noise ratio will be about 74 dB. For a high quality consumer audio system you would probably like the S/N ratio to be greater than 100 dB. Therefore, you would most likely be able to hear some 60-Hertz hum in quiet passages of the program material.

You might conclude at this point that ungrounded equipment, those using a 2-prong AC plug, might solve this problem by eliminating the ground connections. This often helps, but does not necessarily eliminate the problem. For ungrounded equipment the common-mode ground current can still flow through the inter-winding capacitance of the power transformer. The impedance of the capacitor will normally reduce the magnitude of the current (typically less than 100 uA), and hence the noise voltage, but some noise will still exist. Since the impedance of the inter-winding capacitance is frequency dependent, more current will flow at high frequencies (harmonics of 60 Hz) than at the fundamental frequency (60 Hz). Therefore, the interference will more likely consist of a high frequency buzz instead of a 60 Hz hum.

In a balanced interconnect system both of the signal conductors have an equal, and non-zero, impedance to ground. Therefore, three conductors are required, signal+, signal-, and ground or shield.

The three-conductor balanced interconnect system avoids the problem of the shield having to serve two purposes. The signal is now carried on the two internal conductors (sometimes twisted together) and the shield only acts as a shield and not also as a signal return conductor.

If you use twisted pair wiring you get another advantage.
Twisted pair wiring, even when unshielded, is very effective in reducing magnetic field coupling to and from the wire pair. There are only two conditions necessary for this to be true. First, the signal must flow equally, and in opposite directions, on the two conductors. Secondly, the length of the twist must be less than one twentieth of a wavelength at the frequencies of concern. (One twist per inch will be effective up to about 500 MHz).

The above is true whether the terminations are balanced or not. In addition, if the terminations are balanced, twisted pair wiring will also be effective in reducing electric field coupling to and from the wire pair.

Even though field coupling is not the primary noise coupling mechanism in audio systems, it is still a good practice to always twist the signal and return conductors in a cable. (Twisting is especially important in the case of very low-level microphone cables.)

A 60 Hz shield current flowing between two interconnected devices will still produces a voltage drop in the shield, but this noise voltage is not in series with the signal. Rather it will be coupled equally (as a common-mode noise voltage) into both signal conductors. Since the receiver looks at the difference between the two signal conductors (not the voltage between one of them and ground), the common-mode noise voltage cancels out and is not seen by the receiver.

A balanced interface theoretically would be completely immune to noise and interference. In practice, however, nothing is perfect. Even if we attempt to make the impedance of the two signal conductors to ground the same there will be some difference, if only a fraction of a percent, and this will limit the degree of common-mode voltage rejection and hence the maximum noise suppression possible.

Example 2: Let’s assume that the impedance balance is such that the circuit can provide 60 dB of common-mode noise rejection (an easily obtainable number) and that the other parameters are the same as in the previous example. (Note: a very well designed balanced interface can have as much as 80 to 100 dB of common-mode noise rejection.)

Since the shield resistance of a fifteen-foot cable is about 0.25 ohms and assuming the shield current is 250 uA, the voltage developed across the shield will be 62.5 uV (the same as in Example 1). This noise voltage is, however, not in series with the signal, rather it will couple as a common–mode noise voltage into the balanced circuit. Since (in our example) the balanced circuit has 60 dB of common-mode noise rejection, the noise voltage coupled into the receiver will be reduced by an additional 60 dB. Sixty dB represents a reduction of 1,000 to 1. Therefore the noise voltage coupled into the system will be only 0.063 uV (62.5 uV / 1,000). For the line level signal (300 mV) of Example 1, this represents a S/N ratio of 134 dB. We now have a very good quality audio system with the S/N ratio well above the desired 100 dB. Even for the case of a microphone level signal (3 mV) the S/N ratio is 114 dB, still a quite respectable number.

Note: In order for a balanced system to be effective in reducing common-mode noise not only must the interconnection cable be balanced, but the terminations must also be balanced.

Notice what happened in examples. For the case of the 300 mV line level signal, the unbalanced shielded cable of the first example provided a S/N ratio of 74 dB, and the balanced signal conductors of the second example reduced that noise by an additional 60 dB giving us the sum of the two or 134 dB for the overall S/N ratio.

Therefore we can conclude that for the situation described above, regardless of the signal level the balanced interface will have 60 dB (or more, depending upon the degree of balance achieved) less noise than the unbalanced interface.

Balanced vs. Unbalanced Cables

An unbalanced connector is made up of two pins. One carries the signal and the other is the shield or ground (reference point). If we were to look at this on an O-scope , we would see the ground, at 0, and the audio signal, which is the sine wave. This type of connector is susceptible to noise and interference.

A balanced connector consists of three wires. The first wire is the audio signal (sine wave), the second wire is the same signal(opposing sine wave) but out of phase with the first one, 0 on O-scope. The balanced connector is far less susceptible to noise. If interference were to affect this signal, it would on only one polarity, or only the audio signal. But in order for the Console to "see" the signal, it must be on both the sine waves, or on both polarities.


In closing. you personally may believe, that unbalanced is just as good or better. But the reality is, that it isn't.
You may not personally have issues with your system, if it is small and cables very short, and no ground loops are present.
Oh and you know the RCA connection was designed by "RCA" of course, 50 or 60 years ago, to be used for short interconnections between a turntable and amplifier INSIDE of a phonograph. It was originally intended ONLY for short cable runs within the same piece of equipment. Being an unbalanced system it is susceptible to common-mode noise voltages. But it has become a standard in consumer audio

Think about this:
If a noise problem did occur, while you were recording the PERFECT vocal take by a performer after 20 takes, and you got it!
Now you realize the noise problem has ruined the quieter passages. If you had a balanced system, with balanced cords, you may have avoided the problem.

Not sure this thread will ever stay on track... :D




Credit to H. Ott, for what I plagiarized off him. Did I spell "plagiarized" right?

WOW. A perfectly lucid pointed and correct explanation.

Great post!
 
WOW. A perfectly lucid pointed and correct explanation.
I would modify it just slightly. A balanced output has two signal lines with the same signal at the same amplitude but oposite phase. The primary requirement of a balanced input in that it have exactly the same gain on one side as the other, but invert the "-" input signal before adding it to the "+" input signal. That way the common-mode noise is canceled even if the desired signal did not come from a truly balanced source. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balanced_audio is a good explanation.

Balanced inputs make it easier to reduce the noise interference where you don't have control of various factors like ground currents. Our aircraft audio products I designed don't have balanced inputs, but the noises stay out if the installer follows the details of the installation instructions. Aircraft however are incredibly bad environments for electrical noise, and now and then I get a call from a technician who thinks ground is ground is ground and he has connected every part of the system that looks like ground to the airframe at that point--"to get a better ground," he thinks--and then wonders why tons of noise is getting in from the alternators, gyros, strobes, etc.. (This is similar to the grounding situation with home studios.) Usually they're accusing us of sending them a defective unit, or they think they need power supply filtering. It's always a challenge (sometimes a fun one) to be diplomatic and show them why you can't connect it that way. When we get them to lift all these extraneous grounds and only use the ground connections we supply in the cabling, the noises are gone.
 
Wil816 said:
I would modify it just slightly. A balanced output has two signal lines with the same signal at the same amplitude but oposite phase. The primary requirement of a balanced input in that it have exactly the same gain on one side as the other, but invert the "-" input signal before adding it to the "+" input signal. That way the common-mode noise is canceled even if the desired signal did not come from a truly balanced source. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balanced_audio is a good explanation.
Yes, you can always explain something in more detail, but the basic premise is the same.

Wil816 said:
Balanced inputs make it easier to reduce the noise interference where you don't have control of various factors like ground currents. Our aircraft audio products I designed don't have balanced inputs, but the noises stay out if the installer follows the details of the installation instructions. Aircraft however are incredibly bad environments for electrical noise, and now and then I get a call from a technician who thinks ground is ground is ground and he has connected every part of the system that looks like ground to the airframe at that point--"to get a better ground," he thinks--and then wonders why tons of noise is getting in from the alternators, gyros, strobes, etc.. (This is similar to the grounding situation with home studios.) Usually they're accusing us of sending them a defective unit, or they think they need power supply filtering. It's always a challenge (sometimes a fun one) to be diplomatic and show them why you can't connect it that way. When we get them to lift all these extraneous grounds and only use the ground connections we supply in the cabling, the noises are gone.
Yes, too many people don't understand the difference in grounded & grounding issues, and once you go thru a bridge rectifier or transformer, you have new grounding/grounded issues. an aircraft would be a very challenging electrical system to work on. I would imagine, high frequency problems could arise, and gyros and strobes, could cause havock, uh oh :).

But remember, an aircraft is a totally unique designed system, unlike a home studio environment. I'm sure even some neutrals are "floated", for control cirtcuits. These type situations aren't common in an audio environment, though.

I have worked on shipboard systems, which are slightly different, but mostly AC & DC systems on land. The closest to aircraft systems, I have worked on, I would guess, might be Robotic systems, or the electrical systems in Nuclear powerhouses, which even a slight eddy current(Foucault current), as by Lenz's law, is a possible problem. So everything must be balanced and quiet as a mouse... ;)


Thanks for responding Wil, I take it then, that you are a design engineer, not a tradesman?


But enough of this, I'm here to learn about Reel to Reel recorders & the types of tapes used, and calibrating decks etc... I am totally new to the RtR world. :)

Did I hijack my own thread? :D
 
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But remember, an aircraft is a totally unique designed system, unlike a home studio environment. I'm sure even some neutrals are "floated", for control cirtcuits. These type situations aren't common in an audio environment, though.
I'm not sure what you mean by "unique designed system," but the electrical system in too many cases is still being made with no consideration for modern sensitive electronic instrumentation and entertainment. Add to that the fact that small aircraft's life expectancy is much longer than that of cars, and you have decades-old aircraft that have been re-fitted with various new pieces of instrumentation several times since they were new. The grounds I was talking about would show zero ohms to the airframe with a continuity meter, but it's important to join them only at certain places, preferably only one place.

I take it then, that you are a design engineer, not a tradesman?
Since 1985 I've been working for a couple of tiny companies where I was usually the entire engineering department, doing product design including schematics, embedded software, printed circuit board layout, parts lists, assembly instructions, user and installation manuals, etc., and setting up and programming automated production testing, sometimes designing equipment for that too. In '84-'85 I worked in applications engineering at a company that made VHF & UHF power transistors mostly for military communications and radars, but I didn't enjoy that. I've mostly been out of the recording field since the early 80's. I had to design record/play electronics for a special-application cassette in '88. It didn't have to be music-quality, but it was fun, and the tape-recorder bug (ie, interest) bit me again.

Have you received the tape reviews yet?
 
Wil816 said:
Since 1985 I've been working for a couple of tiny companies where I was usually the entire engineering department, doing product design including schematics, embedded software, printed circuit board layout, parts lists, assembly instructions, user and installation manuals, etc., and setting up and programming automated production testing, sometimes designing equipment for that too. In '84-'85 I worked in applications engineering at a company that made VHF & UHF power transistors mostly for military communications and radars, but I didn't enjoy that.
Impressive, green one! :D


Wil816 said:
Have you received the tape reviews yet?
Yes, got them this morning. I have browsed them, but have not read them completely, yet. They both look very interesting. Thx.
 
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