Help! I need moral reinforcement :(

B

bloomboy

New member
I feel like shooting myself. I record on a tascam 38, and when it works well it's wonderful, but it feels like I get maybe two weeks or a month of good recording time before something goes wrong and it's in the shop for another month or two. Is this just the price one has to pay for recording on tape? I've put maybe a thousand dollars into this tape deck over the last year (even got it relapped) and though it's old it's in extremely good shape. I keep very careful care of it- it's kept in an air-conditioned, smoke-free environment, I clean the heads at every break and demag once a week, but still the damn thing just keeps breaking. I got the head assembly back from JFR three weeks ago, and it was sounding better then ever, until a couple of days ago when it decided to start intermittently erasing parts of tracks 7 and 8, which actually destroyed about a week's worth of work.

What should I do? Am I doing something wrong? Is this the universe's way of telling me that it's time to cave and go for that DA-38? I am really at my wit's end here. I love recording on tape when it works- there's really nothing like it, from the sound quality to the actual experience of it, but I'm a musician, not a technician, and I don't enjoy fixing technical problems. I know that troubleshooting is an inevitable part of being an analog home recordist, but this is just ridiculous.

Eagerly awaiting replies,
theo :confused:
 
Jeez, I wish I could tell you what the problem is. It's nothing personal though, I assure you. :D It's frustrating, I know what you're saying. I've had to take mine apart twice in the last month to stop a really annoying squeak that was happening in the capstan motor. And the 38s are a PITA to take apart. It was even slowing down the tape deck from rubbing. It's enough to drive you batty. The decks get old. I'm sorry you had to throw so much money into it. I wonder what the problem with your track 7 is. Just remember digital can be just as frustrating. ;)
 
bloomboy said:
...cave and go for that DA-38?
Click to expand...

Out of the pan and into the fire. :eek:

The truth is, the more stuff you have, the greater the odds you will have malfunctions. We home studio guys wear many hats... one of those is tech support. That is just the reality of it. There are plenty of people that like to drive, but have no interest in maintaining their own cars. If you want to drive you must either have the money to pay for service, or the knowledge and will to fix it yourself.

If you weren't maintaining your analog deck you would be rescuing hard drives, dealing with tape-eating DA-38s, etc. Choose your poison.

I don’t have many equipment breakdowns... mostly routine maintenance, which really helps cut down on breakdowns. It is possible you have a machine that has seen better days, but it’s not analog or even 38s per se; it’s just that particular machine.

Don’t give up. Power amps blow, guitar strings snap, PCs crash, motors burn up, MIDI notes stick, capstan belts break, etc, etc, etc.

Step back, take a breath and stick to it. Keep in mind you're doing all the jobs yourself that takes a staff of specialists in a commercial studio. It is never as easy as the brochure makes it out to be.

This is Earth… stuff happens… keep it in perspective. Success stories are full of the things that went wrong... the obstacles to overcome. You’ll make it. We'll be here to help with technical issues best we can. :)
 
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Dude.....A DA-38? 1995 called..they want their post back. :p just kidding...
 
Thanks for the replies. Beck, I hadn't really thought about that, but I'm sure digital does come with its own set of complications. And I didn't mean to say that I'm not willing to learn everything I can about the technical aspects of recording; I know it's necessary, I just don't really enjoy it.

I've been thinking of maybe selling the 38 and going for an ms-16. Does that sound like a good idea? the way I see it I can probably get maybe $1000 for the 38, maybe $1500 if I sell it piece by piece (it's in nearly perfect condition, heads just relapped and everything) and it seems like the cost of maintainence is going to be the same no matter what type of tape deck I have. So if I can find an MS-16 for about $1000, plus maybe $200-250 shipping and let's assume another $200-250 of work before it's useable, I'll end up with a much better tape recorder that hopefully breaks a little less often (the ms-16 is equivalent in its electronics to the tascam 50 series, right?) and costs the same to fix. Or is that just wishful thinking?

Cheers,
theo
 
Theo,

Great advice above but I'd also like to add that it may be to your benefit to quit putting finances + time into a machine which is crapping out regularly. Servicing of the regular nature is normal but you have a possessed 38, it seems. :eek: Just cut your loses, sell the thing and do better at picking out a non-problematic unit.

I think 1000 - 1500 is a bit over-optimistic on your part, especially a 38 with lapped heads and obvious tape guide wear and general high usage, not to mention problems you're having and the buyer would inherit.

I understand you wanting to get back some of the money that you put into it but you're not going to get your asking price, not close to it at all. I think the best you could hope for is to sell it, get some of your money back and get another 8 track.

Honestly, I'd sell and buy one locally if I were you. MS-16's are nice but very rare and very, very heavy. When you get to that point, you need a crating expert. Don't do the shipping if you're dealing with just your typical reseller.

Also, taking into account obvious lessons you've learned, it would be to your benefit to check out a unit in person before commiting to buy.
 
Yeah, good point cjacek. Well, I've seen a 38 in worse condition go for about 800 on ebay, so I'm hoping for at least something in that range. The documentation from JFR and Austin Stereo should help with that. Not that I have any intention of misrepresenting it, but people on ebay tend be f**cking morons when it comes to old analog gear- hopefully it won't be too hard to sell. Piecing it out could help too.

I'm pretty sure that if I get another deck it's going to be a one-inch 16 track though. I have a steady job now, and this is much more than a hobby for me. I don't mind putting more money than expected into it, or driving cross-country myself to pick it up (a bit more expensive than crating, but not really when you think about the hundreds in damage a dropped 16 track would incur). I'm already putting every scrap of income I can manage into buying recording gear, and a few hundred more right now for a much better machine as opposed to god knows how much money keeping this 38 going just makes too much sense. Unfortunately finding one locally is going to be pretty much impossible; even austin is about 99 percent digital these days. Instead I'm just going to assume that it will need an extensive overhaul and be pleasantly surprised if it doesn't. On another note, I've also been thinking about maybe getting an ms-16, selling the headstack, and tracking on 1" 8-track :D

Someday when I'm fabulously wealthy I'm going to convert two 2" machines to four-track and link them. ;)
 
Or just painstakingly tape two 2” tapes together edge-to-edge and stack one head above the other on one machine… :p

But all the while (it will take a while… 2500 ft ya know) keep reminding yourself that Tom Scholz changed rock forever with 12 tracks on 1” (choosing more tracks over wider tracks by converting his 8-track Scully to 12-track). Several bands and artists in the ‘80s produced some great music on the Fostex E-16 (16 tracks on ½”), as did others on the TASCAM 388 (8 on ¼” @ 7.5 ips).

Tape will only help you if you have something worthwhile to put on it, and if you do the track width isn’t the first thing on the list to concern yourself with. Oh, it’s important, but there’s a point of diminishing returns.

Speaking of which, if you feel you’ve outgrown the number of tracks you have with the 38 that would be a good reason to jump to something else. However if you're seeking a low maintenance, trouble-free experience even a Studer (or rather especially a Studer) will give you more fits than you can stand and cost much more to service than your 38.

The 38 is so well established and available that it’s still one of the best options on the planet. Get one that works and it will work well. Spare parts are readily available. It shares the same heads with the TSR-8, 48, and 58. You can find them well taken care of and you can find dogs that should be parted out or pitched.

IMO, maintenance issues are not the biggest threat to great potential. The biggest threat is becoming arrested in the gear acquisition phase and never completing anything with whatever you have because you’re always looking for some other piece of gear you don’t have that will make you famous. Nearly every music mag on the planet, most of which are product oriented, help to perpetuate this endless quest for the perfect device. Yet history shows that the artists we know the best have done the most with the least; are bright, talented, resourceful and determined. The gear is secondary. Fatter tracks or better converters... it’s all the same goose chase.

Have you given up on your 38, or are you curious as to why you are intermittently losing material on tracks 7 & 8? I’m curious because it’s the first time I’ve heard of that. It could be worn out and failing bit by bit. But again, that wouldn’t be a good reason to abandon the model for something “Better.”

:)
 
Beck, that was a very good reminder. It's never good to become more focused on the gear rather than what you're using it to produce.

That being said, I'm not foolish enough to be looking for a low-maintainence solution... those don't exist. Anything worth having will probably require a lot of suffering ;)

The reason I'm so frustrated is not that I think one more piece of gear will make my album suddenly wonderful- it's easy to get sidetracked talking about a 16-track, and it would be nice especially for some of the string stuff I am recording, but the truth is I would be more than happy if my 38 would just work. I'd even be happy putting in as much time and money as I am, more even, if it would work. The main reason I was considering an upgrade was for dependability, though it looks like maybe just getting another 38 would be a better solution.

I've spent months getting all the instrumental arrangements perfect and notating where everything will go- this album is literally completely ready to record, down to me knowing which instruments will be on which tracks at which points in time- that's why it's so frustrating. I've put literally everything I have into this for the last year, spent most of every day sitting at various instruments working and reworking parts- It's all ready to go, but the damn tape deck will only let me do it two weeks at a time every 3 months :p

I wouldn't say I've given up on the 38. I'm taking it up to austin stereo tommorow, and what they have to say about it will probably determine whether I let it go or keep it. A

Finally, to address one other point you made, I know I could pare everything down to 8 tracks and make a great sounding record on a 388 in a couple of weeks, but I really believe it's not a matter of wanting more tracks for the sake of more tracks. Several of the songs have 30 or 40 instrumental parts- string sections eat tracks quickly when you only know two good players- and the songs just wouldn't be the same without them.

For instance- here's a digital recording I made for some other guys to practice to, 5 tracks in total arranged for 3 musicians:


Vs. the final 18-track recording on the 38:


Cheers,
theo
 
Theo,

You said you're in Austin, Texas? There's a good guy, a friend, who also lives in Texas, who makes a living restoring / repairing those types of recorders. Give him a shout and he'll help, I'm sure. Just tell him we sent you. Explain your situation and better yet, just point him to this thread. His name is Rolf and here's his site [scroll down for email]:

http://www.angelfire.com/electronic2/vintagetx/

Good luck,

Daniel
 
Thanks, cjacek. I've actually talked with him before- he's the guy who pointed me toward austin stereo actually, I think. They're very, very knowledgeable- not that rolf isn't- but also about 2.5 hours closer to where I live than he is. Texas is a really big state.
 
Maybe it would be a good idea for austin stereo, when they're recommended, to have a look at your machine. At least you'll know where you stand and can make an informed decision thereafter.
 
bloomboy said:
I feel like shooting myself. I record on a tascam 38, and when it works well it's wonderful, but it feels like I get maybe two weeks or a month of good recording time before something goes wrong and it's in the shop for another month or two. Is this just the price one has to pay for recording on tape? I've put maybe a thousand dollars into this tape deck over the last year (even got it relapped) and though it's old it's in extremely good shape. I keep very careful care of it- it's kept in an air-conditioned, smoke-free environment, I clean the heads at every break and demag once a week, but still the damn thing just keeps breaking. I got the head assembly back from JFR three weeks ago, and it was sounding better then ever, until a couple of days ago when it decided to start intermittently erasing parts of tracks 7 and 8, which actually destroyed about a week's worth of work.

What should I do? Am I doing something wrong? Is this the universe's way of telling me that it's time to cave and go for that DA-38? I am really at my wit's end here. I love recording on tape when it works- there's really nothing like it, from the sound quality to the actual experience of it, but I'm a musician, not a technician, and I don't enjoy fixing technical problems. I know that troubleshooting is an inevitable part of being an analog home recordist, but this is just ridiculous.

Eagerly awaiting replies,
theo :confused:
Click to expand...

You have a worn out deck. All decks, no matter the brand, will wear out to the point of being useless. Get a good Fostex E or G 16 (not a B-16!) and you will have many years of reliable operation with regular maintenence. Most all decks that are in good condition will be reliable and require little work to keep running unless you are using them in a professional environment (running all day). Only then will the pro decks (Studers, MCIs, Ampexs etc.) require any more maitenence then a TASCAM. Bottom line: get a deck, TASCAM or FOSTEX that is in great condition and you will have a reliable deck. Both brands are good.
 
Knowing a little more now about the type of music and track needs I'd say you have a good reason to jump to 16. An MSR-16 or Fostex G16S would probably be the way to go. We've heard of some problems with the Dolby S circuits failing in the MSR-16S or I would recommend that as well.

In the short term since you are ready to go with what you have, maybe a tech can help you get a few more good sessions out of your 38. Disaster shopping is no fun... it's like grocery shopping when you're hungry. :)

You’ll want to take your time, be choosy and get a low-use, well-maintained machine. If you can get your 38 to hang on a bit longer you’ll be in a better position to shop for the upgrade on your terms.
 
There are two nice looking tascam 246s' on ebay RIGHT NOW. Might want to consider going that route. Cassette's are still readily available and this is a great machine to record on and probably alot easier to maintain. Heck, one of the auctions has recently had the belts and pich roller replaced.
Must resit from bidding..........must resist....
 
Yup, I second the notion from MCI2424 and Beck that when you get a great condition machine, whether TASCAM or FOSTEX, then it'll be reliable but at the same time you may want to squeeze out the 38's last hours and in that case, having it serviced by competent people may be an idea. On the other hand, if you're possibly faced with costly parts and servicing, it may not be such a good idea to proceed. From a personal standpoint, I'd probably opt to have the recorder looked at by a tech, pay the "hour's estimate" and THEN make the decision.
 
OK, so I took it to the shop today... the culpret may be simple tape drift. We're ordering a new pinch roller. It may also be a bad solder on the pcb that the heads plug into. If it's anything beyond that I'm pretty sure I'm going to ditch it and go for another 38 or an MS-16, depending on a variety of factors.

Thanks for your advice, everyone.
 
At least some of the early TASCAM machines were notorious for bad solders. Get them to carefully check any other possible solder problems before they creep in.
 
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