help from some pros please!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ozler
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Ozler

New member
firstly - hi there!

i was a pro musician for a few years, elec guitar, some classical music concerts (liszt, chopin, mad stuff mainly) but like many others i had to get a job to pay the bills

anyway, 7 years later, sick of work, need to go back to recording, but it's changed a bit

basically, a bit of advice would be brilliant.

i'm looking at some fairly basic recording, 8 tracks, standard guitar, bass, keyboards, piano, drum machine, 3 vocals, partly just to get some good recordings of some of my old songs, and partly so i can burn them onto CD and flog them to some local shops.

big question - last time i recorded, it was on a 4 track. i've got a bit of cash, not much, but i have all the instruments - just looking at recording

so what do you think - get an 8 track digital portastudio, or do the lot on the PC?

i've never used the PC for anything other than playing Red Alert......hmmm....

can you cut and paste on a digi port studio? what do you guys use?

style of music - wierd rock with 19C piano infuences, mod stuff sometimes, actually it's pretty random

anyway, advice would be appreciated

thanks :)
 
Theres loads of posts on porta vs PC here. Try the search. It seems to be a matter of taste. Portas are more reliable, easier to use, but not as flexible.

I'd definitely go for the porta.
 
thanks - i'll do a search, i was hoping you were going to say that though...

[runs]off to the music shops on saturday with credit cards...[/runs]
 
Ozler,

i agree with regebro. a digital porta is a good way to start off with digital recording. i use a fostex vf08, excellent box, but if you want to record more than 6 mono/3 stereo (tracks1-6) plus 1 stereo source (tracks 7-8 under the same fader), go for a 16-tracker instead. bouncing works fine on these machines, without loss of sound quality, but if you have more than 6-8 sound sources, you're going to wanna have a fader for each and every one - believe me, i do.

good luck,

mm
 
just thinking, my gf said "log onto a music forum rather than talking rubbish all day and you might learn something..." heh!



16 tracks - they didn't even make them last time i went to denmark street....i'll probably get one - any ideas?!?! thanks :)
 
got it!!! well, an idea

with a 16 track digi port studio, is it possible to make reasonable CDs with a burner? as in are they connectable?

i'm bloody ignorant sometimes...
 
Korg D16, Fostex VF16 for example. Korg D16 keeps popping up in this forum regularly. i'm sure a search will lead you to people using it. Initially, Fostex VF16 had some drawbacks with external back up, it didn't support external CD-R and some other stuff. The second version does, but i'm not sure to what extent. Also, now the internal hard drive is bigger (30GB).

To burn music CD's, you'll have to dump your songs onto a computer (VF16 has SCSI and S/PDIF outputs as well as analog ones) and then burn your CD's from regular CD-burning software. If you want to go directly to CD, you could get a CD-recorder (the ones made for your stereo system) and go directly from the VF16 using the S/PDIF (Sony/Philips Digital InterFace). Chances are you would need a converter since S/PDIF have two formats, coaxial (RCA-jacks, use 75ohm cables, like the ones you hook up your video with) and optical (also called TOS-link). A converter costs maybe 30 bucks. This S/PDIF thingy also works with DAT and MD-players.

What i discovered when going from analog to digital was: the 'great' thing about standards is that there's so freaking many!!!

...and yes, i stole that line from some poor soul... sorry ;-)

There's a users homepage located at http://www.vf16.com/ .

mm
 
I recommend looking at Akai, Korg, and Roland stand alone recorders if you want 16 tracks. Your budget will determine a lot. Look at the mixing sections carefully and make sure the one you buy has enough inputs and allows to record a certain number of tracks simultaneously. That's important if you want to record a large number of tracks at the same time, like a drum kit or a live band. That isn't as important if you are recording one or two tracks at a time.

Good monitors are important too. I like powered monitors because they don't require you to buy a separate amplifier.

You can cut and paste and do all kinds of editing on these things. I don't do it much because I always think linear when I record, but it's nice to be able to insert some silence into a song, for example. I use the Akai DPS16 and the editing is fairly well implemented. It also has flexible punch-in and out features. Those are the kind of things that make recording a pleasure or a real pain.

Good luck
 
this is great stuff - thanks

i'm 'test driving' a roland in a couple of weeks.

this place is absolutely full of good stuff
 
whatever you do,

get a system that records in 24 bits or AT LEAST 20 bits.

16 bits, with digital changes like eq and level, will kill ones music even before it's started.


I used to record in 16 bits to save some space and memory, but when I recorded in 24 bits, on the same system, with the same converters, it was like ... like a REVELATION

peace
 
Ozler,

For my two bob's worth, I think the 'all-in-one' units are the way to go, if you don't want to start building up a bits and pieces studio with computer, sound card, input, output, plug-inz, and all the other decisions and possiblle conflicts that go with them,etc. etc. Obviously the editing on a PC based system is a lot more flexible, BUT there's not a lot you can't do with a stand-alone!

... as far as CD burning goes, there are some that hook strait up to a regular CD burner, Korg D16 is one and I think maybe the Akai does too, using their own built-in software.

There are forums all over dedicated to the specific makes, go and ask lots of really dumb questions!!! people who use these are usually only too keen to help.
(I got a Korg D8, after asking LOTS of questions and considering carefully what I wanted and what I needed to do with it, compared to what I could afford.)

Try www.egroups.com/messages/KorgD16/
or www.audioforums.com/ (and go to the forum on 'all-in-one' recorders.)

I'm sure there are a squillion of 'em out there, good luck.

Macca
 
I prefer PC recording myself, but I tend to think "big" sometimes and I outgrew my stand-alone unit in less than 2 years. But that's not why I posted... just wanted to say "yo, Liszt and Chopin rock!". I love romantic era piano stuff.
 
Recorder

Standalone's are a good way to go, especially if you want to forego all the problems with setting up a computer for recording. Not to mention the steep learning curve with most of todays sequencing and recording software, and all the hardware conflicts that can occur. And if you do decide to go with a computer setup later on you'll have a digital mixer/interface ready to go, just need a soundcard to hook stand alone recorder up to computer.

You can definately make a quality sounding recording with any of todays stand alone recorders. whether they record straight to CD or not is another matter. Some come with an scsi connection for hooking up directly to a cd-r but most of the recorders have spdif digital output, and most of todays newer stand alone cd-r recorders have spdif input.

So even with a machine that doesn't have a dedicated *to cd-r* output you can still record to a cd-r and stay in the digital domain. The Alesis Masterlink CD-R seems very appropriate for this, it's even got a built in hard drive and some mastering effects.

I have to disagree with the post stating you have to get a 24 bit machine, I have a 16 bit recorder and the sound is fantastic. If you were a pro I might agree but for a hobbyist or semi pro IMO 16 bit sounds just fine. There is a slight difference but the only ones who are going to hear it are audio pro's. The general smo listening to music recorded on a 16 bit machine will never know the difference, once again IMO.

If the thought of setting up a computer and getting all the peripherals and conflicts setup and figured out doesn't scare the shit out of you, and you don't need portability I would suggest going the PC route. It is MUCH easier to edit on, more powerful, and more upgradeable in the future.

Or you could do what I did, GET BOTH!! That way you have the best of both worlds. I have a Fostex VF-16 that I use for field recordings and demos, plus I have my computer setup as well. So what I usually do is record onto the VF-16 then fly tracks into the computer for editing/mastering and recording to CD-R. But I don't have to record to VF-16, I can just use it as a digital mixer and record straight into my computer. Works great but does cost a considerable chunk of change!!

Hope that helps.
PC.
 
PC's the way to go, more bang for your buck! and you just keep updating instead of going to Ebay every 6 months.

cheers
john
 
I agree with the pc. The learning curve is about the same, if not faster on the pc. With the roland and such, the converters aren't the greatest either. Had a client want to dump songs from his roland to adat. Bad bad bad news, really phasey, not good. I refused to transfer it because I didn't want my name associated with it. As for the PC, it you already have a good system, it doesn't take much at all to get a system going. Well that's my 2 cents
 
It depends on what you want to do, what equipment you have and how you want to work. If you move to a different basement/garage etc. to record, obviously a port is a good bet. Do you record several people at once? In that case, is the computer room big enough. If you splice a lot of different takes, a computer is easier. Are you into reading manuals.... because learning several pieces of software usually takes more than reading one port manual. Lots pf effects tweaking and automated fader moves... computers do that well!!

So, it kind of depends on you. Everything today is pretty good and would have cost a lot more even 5 years ago. One thing about 8 tracks, because of the now popular 16 track and cutting edge 24 track studios coming out, a lot of 8 tracks are much cheaper or can be purchased used.

Welcome back to the game!!
 
Off the subject, commenting on your comment

Danse Macabre....MY FAVORITE!!!!
 
ram now costs $27 for 128 meg.

next year you will probably be able to buy 1 gigabyte of ram for $100. A system with so much power, and unlimited tracks will be so much more powerful than any 24 track standalone unit.

And please still go with 24 bits. !6 bits are a joke.
 
The fostex vf-16 is by far the best sounding (in my opinion) digital DAW out there......the price is just right too....plus it has some aux sends....

dont touch...dont even look at or point in the direction of a mindisc recorder.....(BLAH)..you will never hear the same...it ruins your ears...ha ha ha

Rolands stuff has lots of options..great editing capabilities, but they are limited as far as recording time (unless you invest in some outboard hard drives) and they just arent very well built.....like the VF-16 from fostex ....plus rolands stuff uses data compression....not cool...

Akai is great too....but again...the inputs are like the rolands...just not a well built machine....not as rugged as the VF-16

i really want a vf-16----obviously
 
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