Help for Sextagenarian Newbie

[sigmadm5]

Hello everyone, just joined the board a few days ago and what a wealth of info. I spent several long nights reading threads for hours, but sad to say though, I?m an old guy just getting more confused. So, I?m politely asking for some thoughts, here?s what I got, my likes, and what I?m seeking advise on. Sorry for the behemoth post, but hopefully you won?t get too bored and all pertinent info is in the post.

My experience:
1) Construction engineer, soon to retire. I?m strictly an amateur that enjoys ?plunking? on my banjo, mandolin, fiddle, and acoustic guitar. I?m not a musician nor artistically creative. This is strictly a hobby on-and-off for 45+ years. But I love it !!
2) I am computer hardware and software savvy.
2) I tried some entry level recording about 10 years ago, then got side-tracked with kids weddings, grandkids, etc. Now I?m just bugging the wife, so she?s encouraging me to get back to my hobby Circa 2000 I created a recording that was fun to create. I would like to upload, but not sure if it is okay to attach in this thread. Please let me know if I can post it, it?ll give you more insight into what I?m after.
3) But for background, this is how I created the recording. I used samplitude to capture 6 tracks, 1 by 1. Track 1 was a metronome track. Track 2, the base track, I used guitar pro to enter notes in treble staff, lowered the octave, and played back and recorded on a track as ?what you hear?. Track 3, strum track, I entered a strum pattern in notes in a treble staff, played back and recorded as ?what you hear?. (This strum track is extremely cheesy). Tracks 4, 5, and 6 are the three different guitar breaks. These were recorded via the following signal chain:
Sigma DM5 acoustic guitar --> Fishman Prefix Pro --> Crate CA-1P preamp--> SBLive value sound card line input jack

My Equipment (it?s old, but like me, still ticking):
1) Computer: Dell Dimension 4400, P4, 1.6ghz, 1gig memory (max?d out), 2 internal IDE 320gig 7200rpm hard drives, SBLive Value sound card, 1TB external USB WD 7200rpm Essential drive, Ethernet card, PCI 4-port USB 2.0 card, Nividia Gforce 3 AGP digital card, 22 inch Acer LCD digital/analog monitor, 2 computer speakers with sub-woofer.
2) Instruments and external devices:
Homemade banjo from scratch (woodworking is my other hobby !!)
Mandolin from scratch
Fiddle
Sigma DM5 acoustic guitar w/Fishman Prefix Pro
Microphones: SM57 and a Realistic PZM 33-1090B
$35 Strat knock-off I purchased circa 1970 (has a boat load of hum)
No longer have the Crate CA-1P, got tossed on a basement cleaning binge.

Desires and Likes:
1) Just me, no band, no playing partners. So I will never record more than 1 instrument at a time (I know, never say never).
2) MIDI are just 4 random letters to me (not really, but no current interest in MIDI)
3) Possibly record from 2 sources simultaneously (guitar under the saddle and external mic, or 2 mics )
4) Strictly for hobby and my own enjoyment. No other use.
5) I actually like the ?punchiness? of the amped under-the-saddle pickup.
6) No interest in buying a new computer (yet). It works just fine for surfing the net

Need advise on the best amateur approach to capture my instruments. I?m thinking of the following:
a) Use SM57 and the Realistic PZM 33-1090B for external instrument mic.( I know wrong mics, but I?m not too interested in spending $300 in mics)
b) Buy a preamp to boost the output from the Fishman Blend Pro with a preamp. I like the extra punch. Would like for the preamp to have some EQ, and perhaps even wet/dry control. The reason I feel pre-processing of the signal is needed is because the computer comes to a halt if I process the signal chain live with more than one plugin at a time. I know I could post-process one at a time no problem, but I would like to hear a good sound going in to the track initially. (It feels more enjoyable to me this way)
c) Buy an audio Interface for the Strat knock-off and for receiving the preamp output
d) bypass the soundcard and use the DI
d) Mixerless is okay.

Sorry, but I?m really lost on the best hobby approach. Can I get a DI that would handle the Strat, preamp and/or acoustic pickup, and get it all into the computer? Thoughts? I know there is a plethora of possibilities, just looking for the most enjoyable and simplest.

Again, sorry the excessive size of this post.

 

[Supercreep]

Hi Sigma - Welcome to HR!

What do you want to do? What's your recording environment like (neighbors who hate drums, sleeping kids, isolation, room treatment [if any])?

What kind of music do you want to record? Will you need drums? Cabs for bass/guitar?

Right up front, you're going to need to put together a new computer. Preferably a dedicated one.

You'll need some kind of audio interface, whether USB or firewire or PCI-E. It can be as simple as a breakout box or as complex as something with matrix routing and mixing and 8+ dedicated preamps. Whatever it is, you'll probably want at least two preamps so you can record in stereo. You'll want some kind of condenser mic, if you want your acoustic and mando to sound as good as they can.

What's your budget, and how flexible is it?

-SC

 

[Supercreep]

Also, lol @ GeForce 3 AGP. Gettin' your DOOM on?

 

[mjbphotos]

First - an audio interface. Something like this one.

Headphones. (needed to listen to recorded tracks while recording new ones with mic.)

DAW (software) Try Reaper - it's free to download and try.

Nothing wrong with an SM57 mic for starters, fairly versatile mic.

That'll get you started for less than $200 (interface + headphones)

 

[diggy_dude]

Your computer is better than mine, and mine runs Ableton well enough. No worries there.

 

[sigmadm5]

Wow, quick responses already. Yes, isn't my computer a hoot. My first computer was a IBM AT with 10 meg of hard disk (yes, that's 10 meg, amazing how things have changed) Anyway, here are some clarifications.
1. money is not a problem except I'm tight as heck
2. just interested in recording my acoustic instruments (guitar, banjo, fiddle). Though I may want to record my Strat knock off.
3. I love Doc Watson music, and try to mimic his playing style
4. no interest in drums or MIDI
5. not going to worry about room acoustics. Recording will be in a spare bedroom, or in the dining room.
6. I have a mic and headphones
7. Need a DI, the link in the post above took me to a facebook page. Sorry, I dont have a facebook account.
8. I'll check out Reaper. I can load Samplitude back up, but it is woefully out of date (like my computer!). I can find a DAW without any effort, it's the interface and preamp that is confusing to me. I know what they are, no need to explain. Just drowning in all of the options and models.
9. Looking for a preamp to add punch to my Fishman Prefix Pro

 

[LDS]

Welcome!!!

Not sure about posting the song(s) in this thread. It should be OK. But it's definitely OK to post some pics of the banjo and mandolin.

a) The 57 is a good mic, it'll serve you well without having to spend a bunch more cash. The PZM could give some interesting results in a lot of cases also.

b) You could kill a couple of birds with one stone and get a small USB mixer that can act as preamp, mixer and method for bypassing your PC soundcard (this would be an interface). I picked up a little Samson unit (Mulitmix 8 USB) for right around a hundred bucks, and it even has some built in effects.

d) You can get a passive DI box for fifty bucks or less. It will turn the high impedance pickup signals into low impedance which can then go into any mic preamp.

Another recommendation for Reaper, also. As far as audio software goes, it's pretty easy on the hardware.

 

[moresound]

Hey Sig no one has mentioned that you should get an all in one unit. Like the Zoom R16.
Google it up and take a look at it.

 

[rayc]

Hello & welcome.
Your comp isn't too bad at all. I really enjoyed working on an old P4 with 250meg ram. It did some great stuff for me.
INTERFACE is a big issue. I use an old & 2nd hand INCA 8 in/8 out PCI card with a break out box - works wonders for me. I bought it for AUS$100 on ebay - LOTS of gear on there. I also use Cakewalk Pro Audio 9.3 which is pretty ancient but since I haven'yt fully conquered it I don't feel the need to upgrade. It has it's own mixer etc in the box.
You'll need to dump the comp speakers and sub as soon as you can & get something a little more neutral - if you have an old stereo around the place or in the local 2nd hand store try that as an interim Measure.
I only upgraded to dedicated "monitors" a year ago after 10 years of using an old setreo - I knew the bias of the old system well enough to work around. the "monitors" weren't a good brand or expensive but they did make a difference to what & how I heard.
I usually work at home solo - but I do collaborate with folks across the globe & that's cool fun for someone of my advanced years and it's a hobby - one that I enjoy, sink a little money (very little) occassionally and which helps to keep me saner that I'd otherwise be.
<ics - I don't have anything that cost over $80. I have about a doz various types & styles that I've found in dumpsters, cupboards & online. Each has its own merits: I find this & try to exploit it.
recording the one instrument with the saddle piezothingo & another out front can be great - I've had some successes & failures.
DI for the guitar - cheap & easy. A combo interface for guitar, mic etc - again cheap & easy.
mate, it sounds like you can start with what you already have. I spent my 1st 2 years of comp recording using the inbuilt soundcard before I learnt & could afford better (&then it was another cheap 2nd hand soundcard before I could get around to the INCA).
What program?
Suss around & find something that works with your amount or RAM & processor. Again - Pro Audio 9.3 works well enough in your environment but so would Audacity (free) and probably Reaper (almost free) - look up & suss out the specs.
MOST of all - get into it & ENJOY yourself.

 

[mjbphotos]

Sorry, fixed the link above - to an M Audio interface.

 

[sigmadm5]

Thanks for all of the great responses. Here's where I'm at . . .

1. Software is not an issue, I've played around with DAWs before, so I'm clear on the DAW. Just downloaded Reaper. Looks fantastic for my needs.

2. I like the suggestion on picking up odds and ends mics. Been watching some videos on youtube and there is quite an array of mic options. I'll noodle on that a little bit before asking questions.

3. I'm going to stick with my current computer hardware, though I do have the itch to by a new computer. More on that later, but I'm good for now.

4. I live in a large metro area, so I'm off to a couple of the guitar chains to see and touch what's out there regarding interfaces.

5. The previous comment on passive DI peaked my interest. I've built alot of Heathkit kits in my younger days (had a Heathkit 100w guitar amp, but pitched it a long time ago), so I have some understanding of electronics. I hadn't thought about impedence matching with the Fishman Prefix Pro. I just assumed no issue since it had an onboard 9v preamp. I'll have to research that one some more before asking questions.

My goal now is to find the best combo unit that meets my hobby and interest needs. I'm off to do a little research.

Thanks, and pls keep the ideas flowing.

 

[AbuseTheMuses]

I am agreeing with moresound here. A Zoom R16 can be used as an interface, or it can just be used as a standalone recorder.

For such a sparse setup and solitary 1 at a time recordings, I don't think an overhauled computer and interface and DAW and such are really that necessary. It's like getting a flamethrower because you need to light a cigarette.

SM57s are good mics for anything from close mic instruments, vocals, hammering in nails, propping open heavy doors, rolling out cookie dough and so on. You really can't go wrong with that.

I just don't know if you really need a high tech software based recording computer with loads of plug-ins for features that will never be used (do you really need a multiple stage phaser or a hi-pass filter through a multi-tap delay for a natural sounding banjo/guitar in natural sounding room?) Sure the software is cheap enough or even free, but the computer dedicated to running it is the real expense. I would think don't bother if you can get an all-in-one dedicated recorder and just USB out to save your mixes to your computer.

Just my $0.02 , but I have always been an outboard gear fan, so I guess I am biased. There's some really cheap standalone recorders out now for between $200-$400 that can do just fine for hobby recordings and USB out to a computer to share them.

 

[mixsit]

2) Instruments and external devices:
Homemade banjo from scratch (woodworking is my other hobby !!)
Mandolin from scratch
Fiddle

Way cool! And a welcome as well.
Nice wood and string tones- want some nice pickup. It's been a while since I've heard the RS pzm (still have a pair I think ), but you might consider one (or two for stereo) small dia condensors. Definitely don't cut yourself short with less than two input front end.

5. not going to worry about room acoustics. Recording will be in a spare bedroom, or in the dining room.

You say that now, but when you get up and running consider- Even a few 2' x 4' soft baffles go a long way to letting you 'clean up' (..as needed, placed around your mics/playing position) for acoustic recording. A very large impact - low effort DIY or not, consideration for you.
Cheers.

 

[sigmadm5]

Someone asked to see my homemade banjo. I photographer I am not. Head and neck shape are patterned after a gibson mastertone. I was inspired by the hearts & flowers model, and made my own inlay design and cut it from blank abalone stock. Neck is mahagony, ebony fretboard and head cover. Neck has a homemade reinforcing rod. I purchased Keith tuners in 1974 for 65 bucks, now they want hundreds.

 

[LDS]

Wow! Nice!

Did you do inlay on the back of the resonator?

How did your trip to the music stores go?

 

[sigmadm5]

Okay, finally made it to the local sam ash (yesterday 10 car accident on the freeway, today we're getting our first taste of snow this season here in the midwest). Anyway, the salesperson was helpful, corrected me after I kept referring to a DI when really I was discussing an audio interface. I'm leaning towards the all-in-one box. I appreciate the suggestions on the outboard dedicated digital recorder. But I am way too visual and I'm afraid that option might not be fun for me. The salesperson suggested an Allen&Heath Zed FX10. Would act as a mixer, mic preamp, EQ, DI, amp models, and audio interface with USB. Look's like it retails for about $300, and comes with Amplitube. Anybody have experience with Allen&Heath? What do you think, this an all-in-box for a one man hobby? Thanks in advance for any comments.

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the a Here's is where I at . . . .

Looking for a

 

[RAMI]

Sextagenarian

Is this about sex with vegetables?

 

[sigmadm5]

Sorry, I have another question. I just noticed the block diagram on the Zed shows the USB audio interface limited to stereo. I assume this would limit output to the computer to 2 tracks at any given time. Correct ?

 

[diggy_dude]

You're quite the luthier. That banjo is stunning!

I assume this would limit output to the computer to 2 tracks at any given time.

That's the impression I'm getting from the information on their website.

The outboard digital recorders mimic the operation of old school mixer + multitrack recorder quite well, and the Zoom R16 that moresound mentioned also doubles as a DAW controller.

 

[bunt]

That banjo looks great! Can we see the mandolin?
You seem to be maybe old school... you may want to pick up a multitracker.