Heaviness=muddiness. grr.

[SuicideNote]

Man, I hear ya.

..my approach is direct-in througha Tonelab, a little distortion layered a couple of times, too lazy for more.
Best I've got is rock-ish.

I think you should work on the lazy part.

I usually high pass my heavy guitars somewhere around 200 cycles. See ya mud!

 

[TerraMortim]

I didn't listen to all of each, but I didn't find any heavy guitars that I could hang my hat on. sorry, but I'm not into long intros of ambiance.

I've done far more work than those two projects. That is just what I have on hand to show people. Why should I put myself out to prove anything to you. I make music I enjoy and there are those who also enjoy it. Some of it is heavy brutal death metal/grind (which I have done a bit of) some is very light. I wasn't trying to help that dude out in order to prove anything to you, my lord and master. Get over yourself and quit being part of this asshole attitude that turns every single post into a retarted flame of who's audio dick is bigger. I don't give a shit what you like, I make music for people who like it, and the rest don't have to listen to it.

 

[TerraMortim]

I don't hear any huge wall of guitars in there. Lots of synth shit. The advice given is correct. Less gain/more mids than normally used.

did I say it was a wall of guitars? nope. you asked for examples of my work so there are a couple. I have lots more, but nothing that I have on hand or online. I don't have to prove anything to you cocksuckers. I thought you guys were just being friendly and interested in hearing something of mine, not some test for the allmighty lords that you are. God damn you people on this board are jerks.

 

[Sonixx]

Why should I put myself out to prove anything to you.

you don't have to prove anything to me... nothing at all.

 

[Newbie dude]

uhh.....wow,haha. Thanks guys. I'm a tad bit overwhelmed. It's gonna take me a little while to sift those this thread, but thanks alot for the help. I should be recording some stuff come this saturday, so I'll try to post it up for you guys to hear.

 

[nuemes]

...I wasn't trying to help that dude out in order to prove anything to you, my lord and master...Get over yourself and quit being part of this asshole attitude...I don't give a shit what you like...

Dude. You asked for help and then you freaked out when somebody said something mildly negative.

This is a BBS, not a fan club. A little humility and diplomacy are in order (not that you'd see that from GWB but we're not all assholes in the states). And if you can't manage that at least a sense of humor.

 

[Farview]

...I wasn't trying to help that dude out in order to prove anything to you, my lord and master...Get over yourself and quit being part of this asshole attitude...I don't give a shit what you like...

Dude. You asked for help and then you freaked out when somebody said something mildly negative.

Terra is not the one asking for help, he's the one helping. Newbie dude is the OP.

 

[TerraMortim]

thanks for clearing that up farview

 

[TexRoadkill]

did I say it was a wall of guitars? nope. you asked for examples of my work so there are a couple. I have lots more, but nothing that I have on hand or online. I don't have to prove anything to you cocksuckers. I thought you guys were just being friendly and interested in hearing something of mine, not some test for the allmighty lords that you are. God damn you people on this board are jerks.

You're the one touting common newbie mistakes as if they're proven methods. Every month we get some 20 year old engineering student who thinks he knows it all and starts telling everyone the same crap we've been trying to debunk for years.

Your stuff sounds pretty good and it's obvious you have a good grasp of the basics. But recording electronic music is very different then recording mic'd instruments. I did electronic stuff for 10 yrs and had a whole new learning curve to deal with when I wanted to do more traditional recording.

Like I said before, stop being so defensive and you might learn something.

 

[gcapel]

Actually, now that you mention it, it really isn't that unusual to have to tone things down a bit in a recording environment. You're in a studio - not a club with poor amplification. You don't have to bash the cymbals or the hat so hard; the mics won't have trouble hearing them. And the harder you strum that accoustic, the less tone you're going to hear from the guitar, and the more pick on string noise you're going to get, and the thinner it's going to sound.

It's kind of like an actor who's used to theater (and playing to a large audience) having to tone things down should he/she make the switch to an afternoon soap or a dramatic movie. The camera is right in front of you; you don't have to make your actions and facial expressions so large.

But getting back to the whole guitar tone thing ... I think the whole "less gain" thing is just a rule of thumb to help compensate because some people just generally get carried away with it. Most people when they practice or play out really are using too much gain even for that setting, but they just don't know it. It's like a singer who will just generally tend to want too much reverb or effects on their voice ... as a general rule, guitar players just tend to crank the gain too high because they're having Slayer/Pantera fantasies in their head or something and they always want just a little too much.

The single most important thing ... is to learn what a good tone really sounds like. Some people know what a good tone is, but most people don't have a clue. I've had guys give me the old line; "but it sounds great coming out of the amp. Why doesn't it sound that way on a recording?" Then I'll have a listen to their tone coming out of the amp and just sort of scratch my head .... Is this guy serious? Does he really think that what's coming out of his amp is actually good? Because I'm listening to it, and it sounds like dog shit ... just like it does on the recording. Why can I hear that clear as day, while the person playing is just oblivious? It's about perspective and understanding the difference between good and bad tone.

.

Every thing you've said is right on.

But you never dissappoint me with your no nonsense sarcasim.

 

[TerraMortim]

You're the one touting common newbie mistakes as if they're proven methods. Every month we get some 20 year old engineering student who thinks he knows it all and starts telling everyone the same crap we've been trying to debunk for years.

Your stuff sounds pretty good and it's obvious you have a good grasp of the basics. But recording electronic music is very different then recording mic'd instruments. I did electronic stuff for 10 yrs and had a whole new learning curve to deal with when I wanted to do more traditional recording.

Like I said before, stop being so defensive and you might learn something.

for one you obviously only listened to noizefloor, because Terra mortim is filled with live vocals, guitar, and drums. Yes, the drums were recorded live with me recording and playing them in a "real" studio, with yes...real mics, with some synthetics added because of the style, And the guitar is a mixture of live miced amps and software amps.. realism is very unimportant in the sound of that project so I made the choice to go for a combination. For another thing, you obviously hadn't hear what I said in the way that I've recorded plenty of death metal and stuff like that.

For very heavy styles of metal and stuff the "sound" is to distort and saturate the fuck out of the guitars. I'm far from a newbie, I've been doing audio for a little over 10 years now, and music for about 3 and a bit years before that. It's funny that you try to debunk things just because it's not the way you do it. Sometimes "bad techniqe" becomes good technique in order to get a certain sound, or feel. For most guitar based music, it's very true that reducing the distortion would be suprisingly the best plan of action, and if I was working on a project that wasn't of the extreme metal variety, or of some experimental nature that required a certain sound, I would definately follow that, as I've found that to be true as well.. however, in order to get this "brutal" sound he was talking about, which whether I'm wrong for assuming or not, I think he's on about something like death metal or someting, it should be very saturated and distorted, shaping the "clarity" with the way you apply compression etc... When I am speaking of this, I am talking about in these certain circumstances. Which is why I agreed with Farview. He's right, AND I'm right. They are totally different monsters and some of the techniques involved in what is considered a good production can differ. Open your mind.

 

[TerraMortim]

Actually, now that you mention it, it really isn't that unusual to have to tone things down a bit in a recording environment. You're in a studio - not a club with poor amplification. You don't have to bash the cymbals or the hat so hard; the mics won't have trouble hearing them. And the harder you strum that accoustic, the less tone you're going to hear from the guitar, and the more pick on string noise you're going to get, and the thinner it's going to sound.

It's kind of like an actor who's used to theater (and playing to a large audience) having to tone things down should he/she make the switch to an afternoon soap or a dramatic movie. The camera is right in front of you; you don't have to make your actions and facial expressions so large.

But getting back to the whole guitar tone thing ... I think the whole "less gain" thing is just a rule of thumb to help compensate because some people just generally get carried away with it. Most people when they practice or play out really are using too much gain even for that setting, but they just don't know it. It's like a singer who will just generally tend to want too much reverb or effects on their voice ... as a general rule, guitar players just tend to crank the gain too high because they're having Slayer/Pantera fantasies in their head or something and they always want just a little too much.

The single most important thing ... is to learn what a good tone really sounds like. Some people know what a good tone is, but most people don't have a clue. I've had guys give me the old line; "but it sounds great coming out of the amp. Why doesn't it sound that way on a recording?" Then I'll have a listen to their tone coming out of the amp and just sort of scratch my head .... Is this guy serious? Does he really think that what's coming out of his amp is actually good? Because I'm listening to it, and it sounds like dog shit ... just like it does on the recording. Why can I hear that clear as day, while the person playing is just oblivious? It's about perspective and understanding the difference between good and bad tone.

.

Overall interesting post. Just one nit pick. With drums, the lightness or hardness that you play them makes a big difference in the sound and feel of a drum part. If you lightly tap away to a heavy song, people will be able to tell, and it will tend to lack a certain energy. You can tell when someones slamming the shit out of the drums on a recording or just lightly playing. So I think that comes more down to what feeling you want to give the drum track, heavy or light, not so much one way or another for every recording. If the song should rage, slam the drums like they are your worst enemy, if the song should relax, play them in a more reserved manor.. you know what I'm saying.

 

[rgraves]

Which is why I agreed with Farview. He's right, AND I'm right. They are totally different monsters and some of the techniques involved in what is considered a good production can differ. Open your mind.

Farview actually does quite a bit of death metal if I understand correctly. Not just "metal", but DEATH metal, and probably some black metal and everything in between.

I'm really not sure that your advice is a good idea. If we are gonna make generalizations, I would think that even for death metal and black metal you would want to use less distortion than you are saying.

Maybe Farview could help clear up some of this...how much distortion would you use for "brutal death metal", haha. Gain up to 10? I would think not, but maybe he can clear this up once and for all.

 

[Farview]

Farview actually does quite a bit of death metal if I understand correctly. Not just "metal", but DEATH metal, and probably some black metal and everything in between.

I'm really not sure that your advice is a good idea. If we are gonna make generalizations, I would think that even for death metal and black metal you would want to use less distortion than you are saying.

Maybe Farview could help clear up some of this...how much distortion would you use for "brutal death metal", haha. Gain up to 10? I would think not, but maybe he can clear this up once and for all.

It really does depend on the sub-genre, like Terra said. But it's not really about more or less gain, it's about the type of distortion. Different types of distortion are percieved as 'gainier' than others, but the actual gain setting has very little to do with it.

Case in point: Dimebags sound is always described as 'gainy'. When you turned off the EQ pedal that was taking out the mids, it didn't sound that way anymore. (and by doing that, you would really be adding more gain. Think about that for a moment)

There is also more than one way to skin a cat.

 

[TerraMortim]

It really does depend on the sub-genre, like Terra said. But it's not really about more or less gain, it's about the type of distortion. Different types of distortion are percieved as 'gainier' than others, but the actual gain setting has very little to do with it.

Case in point: Dimebags sound is always described as 'gainy'. When you turned off the EQ pedal that was taking out the mids, it didn't sound that way anymore. (and by doing that, you would really be adding more gain. Think about that for a moment)

There is also more than one way to skin a cat.

that's true