Headphones vs. Speaker Quality

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pretzston

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Alright... here is a question.

I have done a rough recording of a tune I wrote, has acoustic, 5 part harmony (nothing fancy)... and eventually another acoustic and a shaker or some percussion.

Anyway... I recorded to Cool Edit Pro in through my Sound Blaster card...

my question it...

when I am listening through my headphones it sounds great, the mix is nice, the acoustic sounds very full and rich.. sounds like the initial quality when i was recording.

when I switch to speakers the sound quality seems to drop. The acoustic sounds weak and not was warm and full and the vocals sound empty.

I know that is going to sound nice coming out of decent headphones... but the change is pretty drastic...

any advice? thoughts?

Through the headphones I am AMAZED with the sound quality I am getting.. out of the speakers I am dissapointed.
 
Your results are very typical.

The ideal monitoring environment is not one that flatters. Rather, you want a monitoring environment that gives you an honest picture of what has been recorded. Headphones are notorious for flattery.

If you can afford monitor speakers you should go for it. If you can't, then I'd advise you to listen on your headphones to a professionally mixed tune by your favorite artist that approximates the kind of density you'd like your tune to be. Try to cop that from top to bottom. Then, reference the mix on many different systems. A good mix sounds pretty good everywhere. A bad mix might sound great on the system you mixed it, but sounds inexplicably bad on other systems.

I know this, 'cause I've been there. Ultimately, I ended up supplementing my Audix 1A/Hafler monitoring with a cheap boom box. Between these two environments, I can get pretty honest monitoring.

Good Luck.
 
Yeah, well, Blue Bear is da' man.

No, really, he knows of what he speaketh.
 
Ok.. so here is my question.

The guitar and everything else sounds amazing and full, "real" through the headphones...

Can I, and how would (advice) got about obtaining that same wonderful tone out of speakers?

I just have to assume, in hopes, that if their is that sound quality available.. the fullness and richness of the guitar... coming out of the headphones... I need to somehow someway be able to reach through the speakers?

Can the quality of sound that high be only available through headphones? Or does it just need to be tweaked and figured out how to obtain it through your speakers?
 
What the others said is the answer: you need a monitoring system that will have as flat a frequency response as possible so that you will be able to hear the common denominators that make a recording sound good on ALL systems.

Your headphones, as well as consumer grade speakers, are designed to sound good, not accurate, and because every set of speakers have a different frequency response, your mix will sound different from system to system. If it sounds best in your headphones when you boost the mids in your mix, your mix may very well sound boxy on other systems due to the high midrange boost.

I was having the same problems you are having until I bought some nearfield monitors, learned how they sounded, and recorded sounds based on how they sounded coming out of the monitors. That is how to get the sound you are looking for- put away the headphones and use monitors as a guide to getting the sounds you want before hitting record. Also make sure it sounds good within the context of the mix. Save the headphones for the actual tracking of the instrument and listening for small audio errors in your mixes down the road. NEVER use them for making final judgements on the initial recording of your instrument or your mix.

Trust me: a recording that sounds good on nearfields will sound even better on headphones.

Cy
 
Alright, I knew that studio monitors were best for this...

so... a few questions...

1) Is it possible to obtain the quality coming out my headphones in real speakers? ie. the good sound exists, just need the right mix or recording mix? I mean, if my headphones sound amazing, how do I get my speakers to sound amazing? Is it possible? Or is it like... "it is easy to get your recordings sound great in headphones but without better equipment they will never sound great on regular speakers"?

2) If I cannot afford studio monitors like you all recomment at this point, what can I do with what I have (Boston Acoustic 7500 computer speakers) to mimic or get the best ability to mix?

3) What cheap monitors would you recommend?

Obviously... #1 is the most important. I have this incredible sound comign out of my headphones, I just want to get that sound coming out m speakers. Is it possible? If there is great sound coming out of my headphones does that mean the great sound is there??? I just need to figure out how to get the great sound out of regular speakers?
 
pretzston said:
Alright... here is a question.
when I switch to speakers the sound quality seems to drop. The acoustic sounds weak and not was warm and full and the vocals sound empty.
Click to expand...
Describe what speakers you are using, what amplification is driving those speakers and how they are connected to your soundcard (what output jack and what cable).
 
they are Boston Acoustics 7500

one main left, one main right, and then one surround left and one surround right. also a subwoofer which distributes the sound to the different speakers... there is a large DC plug/box that feeds the power.

the sound is coming from just a main output 1/8 inch line out the back of my Sounblaster Live Value.

I just figure... if the great sound exists in my headphones... it has to exist right? Just need to figure out how to get the sound out of any old speakers?
 
pretzston said:
I just figure... if the great sound exists in my headphones... it has to exist right?
Click to expand...
No, not really -- did you read my article? The sound you're hearing thru cans is somewhat unique to you and the way YOUR ears hear.... that's not what others would necessarily hear.

You need to be making sonic decisions on speakers who's characteristics your very familiar with.... there's no other way around it.
 
OK, pretzston, this is what we are trying to tell you......

1. Put the headphones in your closet. There is no reason for you to use the headphones when you mix or master.

2. Headphones, home sound sysytems, and high-quality, computer speakers W/ subwoofers are designed to make you think that music sounds good (which is GREAT, that means that they're doing their "job" and for the average consumer, that is, of course, what they want). But, of course, you are not truly hearing the "un-colorized" music. Meaning, you think that it sounds GREAT, but in reality.... it sounds like SH*T :( . And, like we have previously mentioned your mixes will sound GREATLY different from system to system.

3. You will eventually need to purchase some monitors (we will give you some suggestions once you let us know how much money you can spend).

4. Once you buy the monitors, you will have to learn how they "sound".

5. You can learn how the monitors sound by listening to commercially recorded music on them.

6. You can learn how the monitors sound by listening to the genre of the music you want to create on them.

brb.......
 
Alright... I am getting this. I mean, I understood to a point but I don't want to think that my recording quality is low... hoping here...

So...

I guess... I am pretty darn broke especially after already being broke and springing for a Behringer b1, audio buddy and a bunch of others things.

I will however, be putting studio monitors on my list of purchases.

So... all this being said... what is the least amount possible that can be spent at this time while still retaining the ability to do the things you say?

Say.. $100 - $200? (I know its low but I am a college student and broke as a joke with a debt)

AND...

Is there anything I can do to bring my present computer speakers down to the level? Turn off subwoofer? Anything that can temp help with getting a nice solid mix?

- pretzston

PS - I appreciate ALL your help.
 
How about doing the best you can right now with what you HAVE
(including a home stereo set-up), for initial tracking.

Then take what you have to a local pro studio for proper mixing on their monitors, in an acoustically treated room, up to the $200 budget?

Then you'd have a reference point when you eventually get decent (or better) monitors...

Chris
 
Pretz,

What I would do on a shoestring budget...

Buy some low end speakers. I don't if they make 'em anymore, but the Radio Shack (I'm not kidding) minimus 7 speakers didn't totally suck and they were around $70 a pair. If you have more money, look at the Audix PH series or equivalent. Then you'll need a power amp. Borrow the one from your stereo system.

1. Use these to mix a song,
2. put that mix to cassette and CD.
3. Go to every sound system you can find, from your cool uncle's $20,000 Quadraphonic multiplex system to your nephew's Fisher-Price Tape Player.
4. Take notes on what sounds good and what sounds bad.
5. Go back to step 1, rinse, lather, repeat

Eventually, you will learn how to make things you mix on your system sound good on others. In other words, you'll learn how your system lies to you and you will learn to compensate so those lies don't make it to the end product.

If you can't afford a system that won't lie to you, at least learn what kinds of lies your system tells you.
 
Todzilla said:
.....Eventually, you will learn how to make things you mix on your system sound good on others. In other words, you'll learn how your system lies to you and you will learn to compensate so those lies don't make it to the end product.

If you can't afford a system that won't lie to you, at least learn what kinds of lies your system tells you.
Click to expand...

That was an excellent post, Todzilla

spin
 
...but what if everything I said was (gasp)...

A LIE!!!

Mooo hooo hooo ha ha ha
 
Just sold my pair of (mint) Minimus 7's to a
first rate Nashville engineer.
They are great as "reference monitors" for checking mid-range, like a lead vocal vs. the backing tracks.

The issue with using most consumer speakers is that they don't "translate" well to other systems.

A couple of top pro audio engineers advised me to start learning to mix in MONO, like many of them did in the good 'ol days.
There are a number of reasons to do this they told me, including the problem of working in a
non-acoustically treated room AKA "home".
Another benefit for someone on a tight budget,
is that they can get one monitor of better quality, than a pair of lesser ones.

My choice was the KRK V4 BTW. Event TR6N's are nice too IMHO.

Chris
 
Thanks

WOW! This has been so helpful. Thanks so much to all of you, I was having a lot of the same questions.

Paul Karate
 
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