headphones for mixing -- flatness needed -- any advice?

  • Thread starter Thread starter speakandspell
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You can find used monitors in the $200 range.

Tracking with headphones is fine but you definately don't want to choose your mic placement with them. I will use them while placing the mic but I always check the sound in monitors before doing the keeper takes. You really can't trust headphones when it comes to anything that applies to your tone.

If somebody is on a tight budget than just get the most comfortable $40 cans you find and save your money for real monitors.
 
Well, I have 30 days to evaluate the HD 280 PRO's and still get a full refund. While I am tempted to just take them back now, get my $100 back and buy a pair of HD 580's for $200 online, the general consensus here seems that I shouldn't mix with headphones, so I may just stick with what I have and save that extra $100 to put towards monitors.

Is this a big waste of money to spend $100 on these 280's (i.e. should I simply chuck in $100 more and get 580's)? I'd shell out another $100 for 580's if the 280's were a time-waster, but it seems that in the final analysis using headphones for mixing are completely a time waster all around and that these will be "good enough" since I'll be buying monitors now it seems somewhat soon anyway.

I read up on the 580's and the description said "good for engineers of classical music". I take it that it's nice for me and my techno, too? :) Also, open vs. closed ear -- this doesn't matter for me since I'm not recording voice, etc., right? (I just now spotted a used pair online for $149 and I'm tempted...)


Thanks for the Tannoy tip -- I checked them out online and they do look nice.

- Dave
 
Lighten up! You CAN mix with headphones - I've done it. Is it easy? Heck no. I've had to burn a lot of CDs and play it at a bunch of different places for tweaking. As someone said, monitors and the room ain't gonna give you a totally flat response. Heck, everyone's ear response is different so unless you get monitors and a room specifically tailored to your ears, you ain't getting flat response. So what are you doing? You are gettting used to what the sound your monitoring system is giving out and you're compensating for it. You can do the same with headphones - but I'll give you that you'll have to compensate a lot more. So don't tell me you can't 'cause I just did! And what're you gonna do about it - arrest me? :D

OK, I'm taking a deep breath ...

Ooops, forgot to be helpful. I've got the HD600 and I'm happy with them.
 
riffing said:
Lighten up! You CAN mix with headphones - I've done it. ... So don't tell me you can't 'cause I just did! And what're you gonna do about it - arrest me? :D
Click to expand...

Do you have a link to any of your headphone mixes?
 
Sure, go to www.wingshadows.com and check out the Music page.

I'm sure you're ready to tear it apart and that's fine - you're entitled to your opinion. The thing is, I know the tracks aren't necessarily that good but it's mostly because I didn't know how to track well when I recorded. But go ahead, let it rip. To be honest, I don't remember which songs I mixed with only headphones and which ones I did with a combination of headphones and monitors. Maybe you can tell the difference.

Actually, I would welcome some constructive criticism. I only ask that people judge the final product and not because I may have mixed with just a headphone.
 
riffing said:
Actually, I would welcome some constructive criticism. I only ask that people judge the final product and not because I may have mixed with just a headphone.
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"The Holy Song" would be a perfect example of a track mixed on headphones......... balances and overall track timbre is completely off... hyped mid-range and poor balances are common headphone mixing errors.........

All your tracks sound fairly much like home-grown demos.... each instrument lacks air and doesn't sit in its own space... some tracks have better mix balances than others...... the one I mentioned above is very clearly inferior to the others.........
 
Yeah, I agree Blue Bear that "The Holy Song" was the weakest sounding one I'm just not sure why. I tend to blame my lack of recording know-how and not getting good tracks to begin with. Garbage in, garbage out.

Q: How would you have mixed it differently to make it sound better?

A: With monitors. (Yeah, I think I've heard that one before. What else?)
 
Without hearing the individual tracks it's impossible to be specific.........

I think Mixerman said it best when discussing mixing principles on space and ambience ---

When mixing in stereo, there are 5 planes of spatial illusion. Level, panning, frequency, spatial perception, and contrast. These five planes are all used to create space in a mix.

Front to back: (Level)
Level gives an element of a mix it's own space. Compression on individual channels helps keep the level so that it doesn't disappear in the mix. A loud instrument will appear forward, or towards the front. A quiet instrument will appear to be back.

Left to right: (Panning)
Panning allows you to give an element of the mix it's own space. For instance putting a guitar part hard right keeps it from washing out the vocal.

Up and down: (Frequency)
Frequency is the use of EQ to boost or cut frequencies that either muddy or clear the mix up. For instance 250Hz-700Hz are fairly muddy frequencies, and if you have too many instruments using this frequency range the mix could be muddy. Everything in an arrangement or mix should have it's own unique fundamental frequency space.

Far and near: (Spatial Perception)
Spatial perception is the use of digital reverb, chambers, plates, delays, far mic placement, etc.. to create the illusion of space in the mix. An instrument with allot of reverb can sound like it is placed in a large hall. An instrument or a vocal with a long delay, can sound like it's in the alps. An instrument that's completely dry, will sound like it's in a small carpeted room, right next to you.

Sparse to dense: (Contrast)
Arrangement is the use of muting, and altering the recorded arrangement to create space where it is needed to accent the more dense parts. The use of density to contrast sparse is great for creating the illusion of dynamics in a mix, within minimal dynamic range. The use of a limited dynamic range makes for better listening in more casual environments, where there tends to be external noise.

All 5 of these planes work together to create the illusion of space in a mix. One is no more important than any other in general, although one or two of the planes could prove to be more useful in a given mix.

Not all are a requirement for a great mix either. For example, your mix should to be able to break down to mono, and still be a great mix.

Mixerman
 
Thanks Blue Bear (and Mixerman)! Those are good guidelines. I'm concious about level, panning and space but I haven't considered freqency range and contrast.

At the risk of sounding like a wimp, I feel guilty for hijacking this thread. Let's let this lie. :)
 
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