headphone mastering

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schnoops

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Hi,
I'm new to mastering. Last year My band and I recorded a LP with my computer, that's 9 titles of solid low fi noisy independent rock, and at the time we barely knew how to use a computer and install windows. We used cool edit pro V1.0 for recording and mixing the songs :most of the time 8 drum tracks, 4 to 6 or seven guitar tracks, 2 voice tracks, 1-2 bass tracks, plus some special background larsen or ambience tracks on some titles. It took us 6 month to fully record the tracks with the pc, and then six other month trying to EQ and de noise and mix those tracks properly, working on the cover at the same time.
No use to say the final mix sounds a bit messy and dull, vocals tend to be on the background, and the whole mix sounds a bit " enclosed" if you see what I mean, and truely lacks volume. But I still think the mix is a good mix, because it sounds good when played on a good stereo with the volume turned up a lot, a bit of bass boost and presence added.
at the time we didn't know what multi band compression was, and we would like to re-master the album but we can't afford a full monitoring system, HiFi amp+loudspeakers+mastering room that doesn't sound like sh+&*.



so, my question is: what software can I use to re-master my album, and what set of headphones(brand, type, etc..) can I use to get a good sound while mastering?(the CD's issued 500 copies yet, but we still want a good version of it for our own use)
And if I put some mp3 samples of the songs on MP3 dot com, would some people be intrested in giving it a listen and report their feelings and ideas on how to improve the mix?

cheers, pals.
 
I don't like to bring bad news, but mastering with headphones is a direct connection to mastering hell.

Forget it. You'll find that the sound will be completely different to what the sound will be like through proper speakers.

The main difference being, that with proper speakers, the sound is allowed to move around a bit before it hits yours ears. Wheras, if you record directly with headphones, the sound has no-where to go but straight into your ear canals.

Also, because the little speakers in headphones are so small, most of the time, the bass response is really really messed up.

Just an opinion, maybe some of the more experienced guys would know better.

d
 
Rochey's right, I think.

I mixed my last album on headphones - just acoustic guitar and voice, no panning, so no big deal I thought. The first thing that I found out didn't work was EQ. The second thing, surprisingly, was levels - I could get levels right through the headphones, and then they'd be wrong after I'd burned it to CD and played it through various sound systems.

However (#1), I got to learn the sound of the headphones a bit, so by the end of the mixdown, I was able to make adjustments acoording to how the levels and EQ were in the headphone that would usually be nearly okay later on down the line.

However (#2), on the album I'm doing now, there are loads more elements to deal with than acoustic guitar and voice, and I really *don't* want to do it through headphones. I'm tired of guessing, and I want to hear what's going on in the tracks.
 
What if the only other alternative to headphone mastering is mastering on multimedia computer speakers?

I don't have monitors available to use...
 
I don't know what the financial situation of you and your band is, and I know from personal experience, times get hard, but I've seen some pretty good deals on monitors lately. Your not going to get Genelecs, but definitely something that will give you a more "truthful" image of your mix than headphones. Dare I say...Check guitar center. I don't like the customer service (at least at the one by my house) but they sell things at pretty knock-out prices especially now around the holidays. If you play some gigs, put away for some monitors. Your recorded music will thank you, and you'll feel better about your recordings (which to me is priceless), so will your fans when they have more fun playing your record, leading to word on the street...leading to sales. That's just coming from me. I'd do whatever it takes to make your music all it can be. The little things count.
 
CyanJaguar, glad I could make you laugh, you toolbot. Your post's been great help for me, you were exactly into the stuff, ha ha ha , bonehead...

to the Other Dudes: cheers alot, I guess I'm gonna have to wait a bit longer before I give a second birth to my record. I'll go for a yamaha amp (they seem to have the highest sound/noise ratio, smth like 107 dB), wich lets the sound through unaffected and a pair of JMlab 3-ways+bass reflex loudspkrs.

what about the software?

is Ozone a good one? I read a post on another board from a guy that tested it and said it distorted the sound in a uncool way, as opposed to steinberg's plugins and others. But isn't it what it's meant for? I mean analog tape and valve harmonic distortion?

What about PSP Vintage Warmer? multiband compression, valve and tape distortion simulation? the interface is a bit shitty I think, I hate those pseudo-real-thing-looking-virtual-vintage-GUIS-my-arse, with zero usability, but if it does the job better... VST sucks for Cool Edit Pro users anyway.

Any ideas, guys?
 
If your looking for a bare minimum cheapo software package, then T-rackS is your only option if you must, for $300 you really can't do much better for simple DIY "mastering" .

If your looking to do some serious editing and "mastering" then Steinberg makes a software called Nuendo, its about $1300 to start, then the speakers you will need in addition to having nearfields monitors will cost around a few grand each.

Id probably remix the project knowing what didn't come out the way you wanted it. Then something like T-RackS will be beneficial. IF your making money selling your CD's funnel some of that into going to a mastering house at some point. There are quite a few bands that have CD's re-mastered after they can afford a better mastering engineer because they know it could be better than previously mastered.

Peace,
Dennis
 
I'll tell you right now,

Radioshack makes a speaker , I forget what its called, but it uses a 5 inch woofer. Man, that puppy pumps more bass than my $400 ns10ms. It costs $20 a piece or $40 or the pair.

THat thing will give you infinitely better results than headphones. A friend of mine uses them and his mixes are as good as many.

www.nowhereradio.com/artists/alternative/testerslogic

The song mixed on these $40 speakers is called

"put your hands on something."

It think a glance at your post will remove all doubt about who is the bonehead :)
 
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Hey hey CyanJaguar!

I'm happy toeventually get some tips out of you ! Take it easy dude, forget about the "bonehead" stuff, I wasn't meaning it up to this point anyway.
no use to wastin time like this, have a good one , pal!

cheers
 
Cyanjag--

I was looking around the Radioshack.com website to see if I could find the speakers you were referring to and I'm not really sure what I was looking for.

Is there any way you could give a model number or take a quick trip to the site yourself to see if you can point me in the right direction?
 
I would ask someone on this board who does have the equipment and skill, and who's willing to master your stuff cheap, to do it for you. One of the greatest mastering lessons I ever learned was "never master your own music." You're too close to it.
 
I just wanted to try and do it to get the feel and just learn how to do it. I don't have any huge projects coming up, just little here and there stuff, but if I did, I'd definitely have someone else do it.

Just a little educational experience for myself...
 
schnoops,

Here is one possibility of getting, perhaps, decent results from headphones.

Dolby Headphone. http://www.musicmatch.com/info/plug-ins/?plugin=dsp_lakepls&version=6.10.0162&os=pc It's a speaker "spatializer" for headphones. I would say it only does a halfway decent job at simulating the spatial effect of stereo speakers (to me it sounds as if the music is coming from just a few inches beyond my nose). But for simulating the response characteristics of a set of good speakers in a well designed listening room, it seems to be pretty well on the mark.

Unfortunately it doesn't yet come as a plugin of any of the standard pro-sumer digital audio software, so you won't be able to monitor in real time. You will only be able to review your changes by playing your final through Musicmatch (audio player like Real Jukebox or WinAmp) running Dolby Headphone in DH1 mode.

I've never tried this, and I can't say how it will turn out. But Musicmatch is free, and you can demo Dolby Headphone for 30 days. So it's at least worth a try. If you find it does actually give decent results, it's only $13.

A couple extras if you decide to try this. Be very careful of the loudness. Standard monitoring level is 85dB. This is a moderate listening level. Try to set your headphone level in the same range. Also, with headphones you don't feel the bass like you do with speakers. You will tend to overcompensate for this and EQ the mix bass heavy. Be aware of this.

Like I said, I have no idea whether any of this will work. You may just wind up with crap. But give it a try. It will only cost you a little time. And let us know how it goes.:)

barefoot
 
BTW - I would recommend Sony MDR-V600 headphones.

These share the same 40 mm, 45 Ohm driver as the very well respected MDR-7506's (which I think are discontinued, but still available) but have a more comfortable circum-aural earcup.

I've seen them online for as low as $77 including shipping.

barefoot
 
I Am doing it all wrong as well. For now

I am stuck with headphones and I have purchased a set of akg K240df Studio monitor headphones. They are a flat response headphone so you have to learn that the bass from a colored stereo is going to be much higher and the treble much lower but for now they work. They are my biggest stumbling block but they are better than your normal set of $100.00 headphones for mixing down.

As soon as I burn a mix it is out to the cars I go to see what I really have and how versitile the mix is. I try to mix so it sounds decent on any stereo, but it is hard.


The first mix I did blew a speaker in my car from the kick drum. ARRRRGGGG, ha ha........

I would not recomend mixing on headphones but I bought these for the four track days and after blowing way to much money on my DAW I am stuck with them for now.
 
Even connecting a boombox (even a very cheap one!) to your rig for monitoring purposes will give you better mixing results than trying to use headphones!

Just a suggestion...

Bruce
 
hi folks, thanks for your help on this headphone mastering newbie problem, I was emotionally schocked to see the regain of interest for my little nonsense topic! 16 answers! WAOW! I've never had that impact with a question on that many people before!
I'll tell you what Í've done so far: I started re-mastering using Ozone, monitoring it with HEADPHONES, and then I play it back through power DVD 4.0 XP using a DS3D audio filter that virtually "spatializes "the stereo sources (it simulates in real time the rooms reflections, you can place the left and right channels anywhere you please in the virtual room).
it sound really different, and yet more realistic. It's true that it's kinda like the sound's coming from just before your nose, but it gives good results for the moment!
when the stuff is processed, I send the dry stereo result on my low-fi plasctic living room 80's sound machine, cardboard speakers.
this sounds as it would sound on any low cost stereo anywhere else, and that's what matters, anyway! because that's the kinda system most people have, don't you think?

I still have to master the use of multiband compression art,. which is quite a bit of a nightmare up until now!
all the improvements I've done so far trashed the sound real bad, it's as if the drummer had been using garbage bins and frying pans instead of his top notch 10 billion $ Premier drums and hand crafted Sabian Cymbals (he saved money since he was born to afford this!).
I'll try this free filter you told me about, if it's good I'll use it for sure.

Schnoops
 
Re: I Am doing it all wrong as well. For now

Freudian Slip said:
I am stuck with headphones and I have purchased a set of akg K240df Studio monitor headphones. They are a flat response headphone so you have to learn that the bass from a colored stereo is going to be much higher and the treble much lower but for now they work. They are my biggest stumbling block but they are better than your normal set of $100.00 headphones for mixing down.

As soon as I burn a mix it is out to the cars I go to see what I really have and how versitile the mix is. I try to mix so it sounds decent on any stereo, but it is hard.


The first mix I did blew a speaker in my car from the kick drum. ARRRRGGGG, ha ha........

I would not recomend mixing on headphones but I bought these for the four track days and after blowing way to much money on my DAW I am stuck with them for now.
Click to expand...

I am in this late. But, given the choice of cheap media speakers and a pair of decent headphones.

I take the cheap media speakers. Drop those headphones, man. You are going to run into some serious EQ and panning problems. They are not a true representation of the music you have on tape. No air and no (true) stereo spectrum. The lead to overcompensating and undercompensating.

Or do it the way you want...whatever. :p
 
Headphones generally aren't good for mastering.
Sure there you can get lucky and there are always exceptions.

With headphones your right ear gets the right speaker and your left gets the left .. but when you listen to a pair of speakers both ears get a mix of both speakers. This is how it's supposed to be.
 
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