Having a hard time with female vocal...

  • Thread starter Thread starter TheGreatBongChicken
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TheGreatBongChicken

TheGreatBongChicken

Musician who mixes


If you guys can check this out for me, any mixing advice would be appreciated but especially the vocal. It just doesn't seem to blend with the mix. :confused:

Also, I know that she's off time with the music at the beggining, she will be re-doing the vocals. But the setup will be the same for the most part, and she will mostly be doing the same thing, just a bit more "polished"

Sorry I haven't been here in a while, haven't been recording for a while but now I'm back because you can only stay away from what you love for so long. :cool:

-James'
 
Just a note, the style is supposed to be a sort of aggresive rock/R&B combo. A little different, I posted a really old recording of this on here once but this is a very new recording.
 
33 views and nobody has any thoughts? Is it that bad?
 
I think the problem you're having is she has too much to say. So, it's constantly jumbled, especially in the first verses. The music sounds pretty good, it's clear, but seems like it could be clearer.

It sounds like a live vocal performance. You can't understand what she's saying. I think she said something about being crucified by Christ :p

You guys may want to sit down and reword things, tone it down a bit, and go over the material a few more times. I think part of the job is changing things on the fly to make it fit. The lyrics don't have to belch out a ton of stuff no one is going to understand.

I've had one dude tell me, "I'm an artist, and I'm not going to compromise on my lyrics". And believe me his lyrics were bland and unoriginal. Very poorly constructed and repetitive. Needless to say he never went anywhere with his shitty lyrics.

Hopefully you aren't dealing with a situation like this. To finish this song will you will need to perfect it and make needed changes for it to work. Either that or have her do 100 times till it's on the money, no doubt.
 
I hope I can convince her to do something like that. Do you have any thoughts though on how to mix it in better? Most of her songs aren't anything like this, they aren't really edgy and are much slower so what I usually do with her voice isn't good.

Somebody had suggested stacking, but it seems like that would just make it even more incomprehensible. Also, any further thoughts on the music clear stuff? Are any drums not cutting through, or too present? I had a hard time balancing the electric guitar and piano, right now I have the piano down the center and the electric guitar panned hard left and right through most of the song.

I have heard her play the song live with a band, and she nailed it. But when I got her in here to record the vocals she gets out of breath and we had to do a few punch-ins and she just doesn't seem to be able to get it all out clear.
 
Think creatively. I hate to say it, but it may be easier to have her listen and once you can give her a mix she's satisfied with, call it a done deal.

Watch this video. It has nothing to do with the type of music you're doing, but it may give you some ideas. You can see how they solve the fast vocals problem by working on it and making needed changes for everything to fit properly.

I think once you hammer out the vocals it'll be easier to work on the mix and get a nice clean sound.

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http://www.yousendit.com/download/RmNEeEVkRkVUWUJFQlE9PQ

More homework:

This is Evanescense' "It Was All a Lie". It's very close to your work, and there are some things to learn from it, applicable to your project and problems. Download and A/B the recordings.

I did, a few times, and here's what I learned:

1-there's a big , round poofy bottom end in the bass range of your recording, and it's overwhelming the mix...and tending to bury the vocal some.....to a lesser degree with the EQ of the guitar R, IIRC. Watch the graph bars in the player to see it. In your record, the spikes of the vox are generally even or beneath the bulge in the bass range. The Evanescense recording has the vox standing tall above the whole mix....which is very flat...rolling off toward the high end only about 3db....hot.

2-the vocal on the Evanescense record is EQ'd to give it a lot more gloss in the high end...and the use of stereo delay has the voice bouncing off the walls L&R to help the thinness and low place in the mix overwhelm the backing. It is the space-defining sound.

3-The vox on Evanesence is much stronger, and more even...compressed, and volume-envelope-tweaked to make sure every syllable and "T" and "S" and click and breath it evenly represented...making it easier to understand.

4-note the use of doubling and volume push in the EV vocal, to accent chorus...compete with bigger parts.

5-In your record, there are places where the Guit R steps on the vox. Edit some of the backing to feature the vocal at all times...or compliment it.

You may want to have the singer listen.....the flow, strength and poetry of the lyric. The cock-sure delivery. She sings kinda Nora Jones 'breathy' at times. It might be able to be enveloped to compete with the aggressive backing; but , generally, might be better sung with more vocal chords and/ or doubling.

That's my advice. Listen to this work, and see what else you can grab from it. This crew knows how to do what you want to do...among the best I've heard!
 
I would have thought the fast vocals were a feature of this song and not something to be ditched at the first sign of difficulty. If someone had convinced Michael Stipe to rewrite "it's The End Of The World As We Know It (And I feel fine)" because the lyrics were too busy, the world (as we know it) would have lost a great piece of music.

The intro lines are not clear - I can hear click track and background noise - and the piano is too loud. All of this means we can't understand her. I'd try the intro vocals dry and compressed and possibly without the piano accompaniment so that we can understand her. She's going to have to get her tempo and diction spot on but I would try this before rewriting. The quick delivery could be an attribute and could even become a trademark sound.
 
"She's going to have to get her tempo and diction spot on but I would try this before rewriting. The quick delivery could be an attribute and could even become a trademark sound."

Very good.
 
beatlebum said:
I would have thought the fast vocals were a feature of this song and not something to be ditched at the first sign of difficulty. If someone had convinced Michael Stipe to rewrite "it's The End Of The World As We Know It (And I feel fine)" because the lyrics were too busy, the world (as we know it) would have lost a great piece of music.

The intro lines are not clear - I can hear click track and background noise - and the piano is too loud. All of this means we can't understand her. I'd try the intro vocals dry and compressed and possibly without the piano accompaniment so that we can understand her. She's going to have to get her tempo and diction spot on but I would try this before rewriting. The quick delivery could be an attribute and could even become a trademark sound.
Click to expand...

That's a great point, although I change the station when that song comes on. :D

I bet he had to change the way he said some things to get it to fit. It's not uncommon to make a few adjustment as you go. It's a part of the song writing process.

Edit: He seems really well rehearsed as well, at least in the video below. He isn't singing either, sounds more like he's talking fast. :D
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Well, she is coming over Friday and I will have a lot of time to watch the videos you guys posted etc.

I'm hoping not to have to change much about the lryics and singing, hopefully she can just get it right. And Jeff, thanks for the comprehensive there... it gives me something to do for a while.

I have a question... you mentioned pulling the piano for the beggining. I have been thinking about replacing it with a sort of techno sound or synth. Do you think that would sound good here?

Also, I am not familiar with what it means to "volume-envelope", I know that probably makes me a real noob but if someone could explain that to me I'd appreciate it.
 
Most platforms allow you to place a line across a track, called an envelope....you can right click the track, follow the drops , and create a volume 'line'. [others are pan and mute] you can double-click on that line, which represents the level set in the main fader, to create 'nodes'...or points...that can be moved up and down to mechanically raise and lower the volume of part of a track.

In the case of a vocal track, say there was a word which the singer sang lower than the others. You stretch the track, isolate the location of the word, and create three or four points, nodes, when it occurs. Raise the inside node...using the outside ones to isolate the line from the change [brackets]...and mechanically raise the volume of that one word. It makes the main fader raise up that spot every time the track plays...an automation function. Stretch the track more, and you can raise or lower consonant endings, plosives, harsh esses...etc.

You can also use it to increase levels during choruses, etc. It's a really great thing to become familiar with. I've seen vocal tracks, tweaked by a pro, with what looked like a hundred nodes, fixing a vocal to his idea of perfection.

Someone once explained that I should use envelopes. No clue. Someone had to show me. What a great tool.
 
Singer's got a good voice in principle, but her timing and phrasing need working on. This is made worse by the timing issues of the drummer. The mix on the whole lacks dynamics, it sounds like one straight emotionless line to me. Bass and guitars do not weld together at all. Jeff's comparison with Evanescence and the way they arrange is a good guideline here. Song sounds promising, but I would start from scratch.

Joey :)
 
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