Have you got the Audiophile192 s/pdif bug too?

J

Jim Y

New member
This is driving me nuts

I've finally got a replacement card for one I returned as faulty and it's just the same.

Can someone else who owns one of these cards please, please, please carry out a test to see if theirs has the fault too?

Here's a copy of the test procedure I've posted in the RMAA forum...

For those testing this card, I would ask if you could confirm a problem I 've come across with the cards s/pdif out channel. Fortunately, you do not have to connect any external device to to test for this condition.

**********************************************************

I've found a problem with the s/pdif output of my Audiophile 192 card, this post is intended as a "heads up" to other owners in case mine isn't an isolated case. You may not have used the s/pdif output on yours yet or not often, and therefore might be blissfully unaware.

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The Problem.

Playback over s/pdif is sometimes either silent or distorted but not every time. The fault only occurs when playback is started, never at some point during playback. The fault does not clear until playback has been stopped, it never corrects by itself during playback. The occurences are apparently random but fairly frequent.

The normal 1/2 channel that feeds the Main analog outputs is unaffected by this problem and always plays correctly, even if in use at the same time as the s/pdif channel while that is suffering the fault. The problem is entirely in the s/pdif out channel.

The actual physical s/pdif output of the card or the external device it is feeding, is not involved in causing the fault.

The fault may be heard using the cards Monitor outputs via the WavOut s/pdif faders in the Delta Control Panel monitor mixer tab - you don't have to connect anything to the cards s/pdif output RCA jack. However, if you did attach an external DAC to the s/pdif output, you would hear the same problem out of that.

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The Test.

The ideal program to use for this is RightMark Audio Analyser.

It is a free download from...
http://audio.rightmark.org/download.shtml


Open RMAA and apply the following settings (all others should be ok left with the defaults)

Playback/Recording.
In the top dropdown, pick AP192 s/pdif
Underneath that, pick AP192 1/2

For the sample/rate and bit depth, pick easy ones like 16bit and 44.1Khz (not important).

Click on the "M" icon on your taskbar to open the cards Control Panel.
On the Monitor mixer tab, turn up and unmute (mute unchecked) the WavOut S/PDIF faders. Arrange to use the cards MON output jacks to feed your speakers/amp if you're not already.

In RMAA, click on the loopback test icon or start the input level setting function.

The program will now start playing a repeating "beep" sound, alternating between left and right channels. Ignore the fact that the Input Setting window warns that level is too low, we are not concerned wth it now. It is the fact that RMAA starts and stops to repeat the beep that makes it so good for showing up the fault. Click on cancel in the level settings window to end/abort the test.

If you have this fault... Within about 30seconds (but try to give it a minute), you may hear the beep become a distorted buzz or miss a beat altogether. If you do, you have a faulty card.

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M-audio UK support are totally unwilling to admit the problem is theirs. However, if the s/pdif output channel fault can be heard over the monitor mixer, it MUST be occuring BEFORE it leaves the cards s/pdif output.

Any feedback from other users will be greatly appreciated by me, and don't hesistate to ask any questions about this or if you run into problems carrying out the test.

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Postscript.

I should point out that I've been using an M-audio Audiophile2496 card in the same computer, pci slot and the same driver version and that does not have this problem.

Cheers
Jim
 
BUMP!

Has nobody else got this card?

I cannot get M-audio to take this bug seriously if I can't find someone else who can reproduce it!

You may not use the s/pdif out regularly if at all, but do you want to wait until the warrenty has lapsed to find out? Please don't assume, test!
 
grn said:
sounds like a software/driver problem
Click to expand...

First, I base this reply on my general technical and troubleshooting background (Non IT) I don't even have a recording system yet which is why I am on this forum, to figure out how I am going to set one up.


I agree with grn, software/driver issues, your reasoning about the source of the problem being the physical card itself doesn't hold water since virtually everything the card does is controlled by your computer and the software you use, that is why it is plugged into a slot on the motherboard. This was evident when you exchanged the card and had the exact same problem. It would seem that the problem resides on your computer rather than in the card itself. The remedy may be very simple, when you find it.

You failed to mention anything about your system and the software/versions you use. If you use Cakewalk for example, you may find some possible remedies in the Cakewalk forums under M-Audio. (I just read one of those topics- very interesting- including discussions of M Audio drivers and in some cases rolling back drivers can resolve problems or using an earlier version of Cakewalk). Latest versions of software don't always mean less bugs, as Microsoft has taught us well.

I think that you may be wasting your time and barking at the wrong tree thinking that someone else, like M Audio, will simply resolve this problem for you. That could be a very long wait. Even if you can find someone somewhere with a similar hardware and software set up to the one you have (whatever it is) and by chance you are able to find someone somewhere who can duplicate the problem, it is unlikely that your problem will be resolved by notifying M Audio that you now have found one other person with this problem.

In short, you are probably going to have to remedy this yourself by researching issues presented on various forums and trying some of the suggested remedies. Try some specific google searches using different combinations of search terms and you may be able to track down the specific remedy.

It could be as simple as; changing program settings, uninstalling and reinstalling software, rolling back a driver (using an early version of drivers) or possibly updating drivers, or using an earlier version of a particular software product.

It's your system and you are at the controls. I would presume that the remedy or work around will be a simple one, when you find it.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help to you, but I did search for a similar description of the problem and possible remedies.

Phangeaux
 
I haven't mentioned anything that it isn't relevent.

The card has replaced one-for-one an M-audio Audiophile2496 card that is technically similar, uses the same driver version and does not have this fault.

It's only the s/pdif output that is affected. If it were my system at fault, the other analog output channel would be affected too.

It doesn't matter what audio software is in use or driver interface type - MME, WDM/KS, ASIO. I've tested exaustively. My system is very stable and can run any sample-rate with the minimum 64 sample buffer latency.

The fact that the fault in the s/pdif output can be monitored via the cards on-board monitor mix does prove it occurs before it reaches the s/pdif output connector. I have not claimed it isn't a software bug, but it isn't impossible for it to be a design fault of the card either. The fact that the channel doesn't go faulty during playback IF it started normally, proves it isn't a system interupt conflict. If someone else cannot understand this reasoning, I can't help that! However, understanding isn't necessary. All I'm asking is for another owner to carry out my test which is very simple. A no-fault report would be as useful to me as a confirmation. If a Mac user doesn't have it, then I can rule out a hardware fault in the card and if another PC user does have the fault, I can confidently point to a driver bug.

I have already been in a lengthy exchange with M-audio support (the first thing I did after checking as many things as I could)) and have supplied my systems complete specs and settings. They can find no cause in that. Their response is that my external equipment on the s/pdif output must be incompatable. My reasoning that the Monitor Mix output (which leaves via the cards own analog monitor output) can also "hear" the fault condition has been ignored by them. In fact, I stopped getting a response altogether after pointing it out twice.

I have long experience with the m-audio pci cards and drivers which is why I chose to stick with the brand (better the devil you know), but I also know that they never take bug reports from a single user seriously. It takes a lot of pressure before they will admit the problem is theirs. After seeing positive reports of the AP192 I thought I was on safe ground - apparently not! If it is my system at fault, then I'm going to look pretty stupid - so be it! However, for just this one channel in the driver and card to be affected, would be a pretty strange system bug!
 
Sorry to resurrect an old thread...

Jim,

I'd be curious to know if you ever found anything out about this problem.
I was searching this forum on a completely unrelated subject and just happened to run across this thread.

I've had the 192 for only a few days now but when I saw your posts I decided to run your test and heard the same anomalies almost instantly.

I have nothing hooked up to the s/pdif I/O so I cannot test my card any further than I already have. Just the same, it was very easy to recreate the same result as you which has me now wondering about the s/pdif I/O on this card.

I'd appreciate hearing about anything you may have learned.

Eric
 
Hi.

You've made my day in a strange way. This is the first confirmation I've had from another owner - and I've posted about this in a few places. In fact, it's the first feedback I've had anywhere!

I'm not sorry you brought the thread back to life at all.

I've gotten absolutely nowhere getting a resolution.

If you did attach something to the s/pdif out, you would heat exactly the same problem. The monitor mixer allows us to test without doing that. M-audio uk support don't seem to understand this - they keep telling me my external equipment must be incompatable.

I have a theory the bug is in the driver control panel settings for s/pdif where you pick the s/pdif out to be either "Software return" or "Hardware input". This is I think the only feature of the driver unique to the AP192 (the same driver also covers the Audiophile2496 and Delta models and this feature or the "bug" doesn't appear with them).
The data sheet for the Envy24HT chip that does most of the work on the card, states that the setting up by the driver for the s/pdif routing must be done in the correct order otherwise the will be "unpredictable behaviour".
For the the s/pdif out channel used by an audio program to actually reach the cards s/pdif out, the setting must be "Software Return".
My guess is that the software routine that sends the setting when the driver is started is a seperate "thread" and therefore not always done in the same order as the rest of the panel settings.

All I can suggest is that you contact M-audio support and point them at this thread.

As a matter of interest, can you tell me the following about your system?
CPU (Intel/AMD)
Chipset - Motherboard (Intel, VIA, SiS etc)

Mine is a fairly old thing now...
AMD Athlon XP1800
Via KT400A (Gigabyte)
 
Here are my specs:

ASUS A7N8X-E Deluxe Mobo (NVIDIA nForce2 Chipset)
AMD Athlon XP 2000+
768 MB RAM
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5500 Video Card
WinXP Pro SP2

Admittedly, I do not have the same depth-of-knowledge regarding audio hardware/software as you and, until this point, have never used RMAA so forgive me if my questions seem basic.

I also have a Delta 44 card installed in my system and when I select any of the Delta 44 drivers in the bottom drop-down list of the "Playback/recording settings" in RMAA I don't here any of the audio glitches. I have nothing connected to the 44 so the audio output is still coming through the 192 MON outputs but, obviously, all the I/Os of the 44 are still selectable in the software.

I realize this may mean nothing but I'm just curious as to the reason for the difference.
 
The top device in the RMAA list is for playback. If you change this to the 44, the s/pdif output channel of the AP192 won't be used by RMAA.

Or, are you saying that if you change the lower Recording device to one of the 44 inputs while the Playback is still the AP192 s/pdif the problem stops and you can hear the test tone perfectly all the time?
 
Jim Y said:
Or, are you saying that if you change the lower Recording device to one of the 44 inputs while the Playback is still the AP192 s/pdif the problem stops and you can hear the test tone perfectly all the time?
Click to expand...

Yes, this is what I'm saying. I am NOT changing the top playback device. It is still the AP192 S/PDIF and the lower selection is any one of 4 different options listed for the Delta 44. As long as the lower recording device is one of the Delta 44s, the test tone is perfect with no drop-outs or buzzes.

With "AP192 1/2" selected as the recording device the glitches occur usually within 5 seconds, if not immediately. I've yet to hear a glitch with the Delta 44 device selected.
 
Last edited:
Ok. I have the older AP2496 card which is technically more like the 44 than the AP192 as far as the driver is concerned. I'll put it back in my machine and see if the same thing happens if I select that for the recording device. Actually, I did this when I first got the AP192 and did notice this too, but I forgot about it because I took the AP2496 out a while back to simplify trouble-shooting.
 
Hello from Spain!

I just bought a M-audio audiophile 192, I didn´t even run de tests cos I did not install RMAA yet, but I got that bug just by playing mp3 with the windows media player on the spidf output, I´ll install RMAA and post my results, but I´m sure it will confirm that there´s a bug.

My opinion is that it´s a driver problem, it makes sense to me since it´s the only Delta series card that is not using the VIA Envy24 VT1712 (AKA ICE1712) chip, but the 192 capable VIA Envy24-HT VT1724 (AKA ICE1724), in fact I´m also having problems with it on linux, since I thoght it was going to use the same drivers as de 2496 (very good card for linux), but I needed a second out for headphones amp and balanced conecctions, so I went with de 192.

I´m kind of worried about how long is going to take to fix this problem on windows XP, and I also like to know if OSX and win 64 drivers have the same problem, since I´m thinking to move to OSX as soon as I can get hold of one of the new MacIntels, I don´t want to change the card since it sounds better than my old Echo MIA and the 2496, it has the outs I need is balanced and works with protools. This bug doesn´t really annoy me sinc I´m not using the spdif, but I´m planning to use it in the near future with an apogee converter, I´m just hoping thy fix it before I buy it or OSX doesn´t have it.

regards
 
By the way I´ll complain to m-audio, and I´ll post this in a very populated spanish forum to see if I can get someone alse to complain as well, I think mass-complains is what will make it with M-audio


regards and sorry for my crappy english
 
Hello Spain!

I got sidetracked for a while but can confirm what setchman said, if another Delta card input is selected, the fault doesn't occur.

I can't remember if I got the problem with WMP - I tested it with that a lot for playing Audio CD, it seemed to me it only occurs with recording software that is configured to use the cards inputs.
The fact that someone has it happening on playback only seems to support the theory of a software timing problem.

I'm also happy (if you know what I mean!) to hear that an Intel chipset machine has the bug as those of us with other types like Via are usually left wondering if its a compatability thing .

Cheers
Jim
 
I did the RMAA test already, and it distorts the beep as I was thinking it would do.

I understand you Jim when you say your happy to hear about an Intel machine also having the problem and me being able to hear the distortion with windows media player as well (it didnt took too long to hear it). I guess it sort of confirms your theory

I already send few emails linking this and other threads to M-audio tech support.

That thing with the second M-audio card sounds so weird to me.....

I´m still wondering about OSX... anyone? Hopefuly it´s just a WinXP driver problem, and Ill be safe when I move to OSX.
 
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