Have I got the right idea, or am i lost?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jeroth
  • Start date Start date
J

Jeroth

New member
Hey everyone, im a newbie in need of advice. I want to get myself some equipment together so i can start getting some experience in recording (this is the job ive dreamed about for 2 years, finishing school this year and going to university next ear to do a Sound Engineer course). Ive been reading arround for a while and made a decision of what im gonna do, but need to know if it is a good idea or not.

I play acoustic guitar and have decided to start getting some recording experience and record myself playing. Im on a limited budget, so i havent got enough money to fork out for a PC and have money left over for all the other actual "recording equipment". Im still 17 and living with my parents, and we already have a computer, so im gona use that to my advantage.

I want to get myself a pair of Mics, a mixer, a compressor and a multi track recorder, and some good software for mixing, editing etc. My idea is to run the Mics into the mixer, from the mixer go to the Compressor and then to the Multitrack recorder. Then once im happy with the recorded product, ill either mix it together on the multitrack recorder and do the rest on the computer, or just transfer it straight to the PC and do everything there.

The mics im looking at are the Rode NT-5's(the package with a mached pair). Ive heard good reviews on these mics for acoustic guitar and that they are one of the best options in their price range. Im strictly recording acoustic guitar and not vocals(i cant sing, lol). I hav a really good acoustic guitar(not to boast), it was my moms and now its mine, hehe. Its a 25 year old Ibanez(APPARENTLY the older they are the better their tone is, if theyre kept in good condition) its in absolute mint condition.

Ive been looking at the Behringer UB-1204 mixer(http://www.gtp.com.au/cgi-bin/icommerce3/order/formclassic.cgi?file=kosmic&display=480&id=BEUB1204) because of its REALLY good price and because i know that Behringer makes good products. I know that its not a top of the range mixer, but for the price it has everything i need, it has enough channels to record guitar, and one day when i have more money il upgrade.

The compressor im lookin at is also a Behringer, and for the price looks perfect for what i need. Its the BEHRINGER MDX2200 COMPOSER PRO (http://www.gtp.com.au/cgi-bin/icommerce3/order/formclassic.cgi?file=kosmic&display=480&id=BEMDX2200).

Ive thought of getting myself a Digital Multitrack recorder such as the BOSS BR-532(http://www.bosscorp.co.jp/en/BR-532/index.html), and use this as my main recorder. Then i can hook this up to my family PC, transfer the tracks to the PC and use the computer for mixing, editing etc, and also use it to burn my songs onto CD.

As for the software, ill just surf arround the boards because i know theres a lot of discussion on that.
Just remember that im not trying to make pro quality recordings here, just want some equipment that will produce good results that i can use to get some experience in recording, and hopefully move foreward from here.

What do you think about the whole idea of goin from Mics into the mixer, through the compressor into the Multi-Track and then doing all the editing, mixing etc on my PC, which is kept in the study, so i cant hav it in my room or take it there every time i wanna record. Sorry for the EXTREMELY long post, hope to get some answers.

Thanks,
Jeroth
 
Anyone...............
Even any reply's on your opinion of individual pieces of equipment that ive mentioned. I know its a long post, but please help a newbie in need.

Thanks,
Jeroth
 
If you're going to use the computer for mixing anyways, why wouldn't you simply use IT as the multitrack recorder?

No need for a mixer either in this case - get yourself a MOTU interface - gives you plenty of I/O into the computer. Also get yourself a decent recording package like Cubase SX and you're good to go....
 
Jeroth said:
PC, which is kept in the study, so i cant hav it in my room or take it there every time i wanna record. Sorry for the EXTREMELY long post, hope to get some answers.

Thanks,
Jeroth
Click to expand...

Thats why i need the multi-track, also, the hard-drive is not old but i dont think its good enough to handle music recording(RMP is proly too low), so i thought that i could get a good multitrack recorder and just transfer the songs to the computer to edit, mix and then burn to CD. Because its a family computer i cant take it into my room everytime i wanna record(its kept in the study), and i also cant put it into my room permanently. Thanks for the software suggestions though, ill look into those ones you mentioned.
 
I think your projected signal chain is way longer than it needs to be. A mixer is for mixing multiple signals. If you're recording acoustic guitar, you are unlikely to need more than 2 channels. The BR532 will record 2 channels at once with the right inputs. For an inexpensive standalone, consider Fostex MR8. Unless you need a portable rig, a good soundcard would allow you to record your inputs straight to the computer from a mixer or preamp. For compression, you can use an outboard unit or a computer plugin.
I would spend the money like this.- A pair of condenser mics. For cheap, I would consider Marshall MXL603's or Studio Projects B-1's. A 2 channel preamp- M Audio DMP-3, one good soundcard (ask others for advice on computer recording), an FMR Audio RNC compressor, a couple of boom stands and some very good cables.
You'll do better to get the good 2 channels you need than a bunch of cheap ones you don't (the mixer). Send the signal right from the preamp to a good soundcard, and put the compressor into the chain if you must. Frankly, although I own the RNC, and it is a very good unit, acoustic guitar is not something I would usually compress at all. Hope this helps.-Richie
 
If the computer's too old to record onto, then it won't be able to handle mixing/editing either. (It could still handle CD-burning...)

Pick a digital recorder your budget will allow and build up from there. The all-in-one units already contain a mixer, so you wouldn't need an extra one, and they also have built-in preamps, so you plug your mics in and go. This will get you started until your ears develop... so until then, it's a good idea to keep it simple!
 
The reason i said i couldnt use the computer was becuase of previouse experience. Me n my friend were tryin to set up his new video editing proram, the computer was all up to date except it had an older, or chep quality HD, so the video was transfering from his DV camer and droppin frams(looked all Jerky)we phoned a few stores and they said that you need a HD with a high data transfer rate(or something like that) for all Audio and Video RECORDING, he could still edit the audio and video perfectly, but when transfering(recording)it stuffed up because of the HD, thats gonna happen to me(it would work fine for the actual editing and mixing, i know cos ive don some basic music mixing and editing with mp3's n stuff. Thats only one of the reasons for not using it for the actual RECORDING process, the other is(im saying it for the 3rd time now, lol). The computer is a family computer, so i cant keep it in my room and i cant keep on moving it between my room and the study every time i wanna record. So basically the only way i can use a computer for the actual RECORDING is to build one for myself or buy one for myself, and thats just too expensive. So im guessing that im still approaching this wrong?, or not?

BTW, im hoping to also record other instraments eventually, so i wanna keep my options open, i dont wanna have to upgrade my mixer in a few months cos i havent got enough channes, so i wanna get stuff that i can also use when i eventually want to attempt recording other instraments.
 
Jeroth, I just started out not too long ago as well. I THOUGHT I'd need a mixer, but for starting out just doing guitar and vocals, you really don't need it. You could always add it later, but for now it's probably better to spend money on other gear, to get the best result you can right now. As you add other gear, etc., then a mixer will become more of a necessity.

And I'd say that if you're planning on getting any sort of outboard gear like you mentioned (compressors, pre-amp's, etc.), I wouldn't spend too much of your budget on the multitracker. You can get a "blemished" Fostex MR-8 for $240 on musiciansfriend.com. I got one and absolutely love it! In my opinion it's the best unit for what you described, due to it's really easy to use direct USB to computer capability.

I'd also say don't waste much $ on the multitracker because if you're going to transfer to computer to do editing, you can just use free plugins to add effects, etc. Check out www.digitalfishphones.com for a bunch of amazing free plugins, including a cool compressor.

So, with your leftover money, I would recommend getting a good pre-amp. Since you only need 1 or 2 channels right now, it'd be better to get a good pre instead of using the noisier, crappier pre's on a Behringer board. I'd strongly recommend the M-audio DMP3 2-channel pre-amp. There's a thread going on right now in the Rack forum about how to get one for $119 at Guitar Center. At that price it's a no brainer!

And BEFORE YOU BUY ANYTHING, check out LOTS of sites! Because I know you can get that Behringer board WAY cheaper if you decide to end up buying it. Check out musiciansfriend.com, music123.com, samash.com, 8thstreet.com, humbuckermusic.com, americanmusicsupply.com, zzounds.com, samedaymusic.com, etc. etc. And don't forget eBay! You can often get brand new gear on eBay at the lowest possible prices! I just got a MXL v67g vocal LD condenser for $82 including shipping, brand new! It typically lists at $99, without shipping.

In terms of mics for recording guitar, the NT-5 pair is probably a great choice. They're expensive though, but I found a GREAT eBay seller who has some. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2538209688&category=15198

I actually got my v67g from this seller, and although she won't return e-mails and packages things a little poorly, she's got brand new amazing mics at ridiculously low prices! If you just wait to bid on this until the last minute of the auction, you can probably get it for $220, plus around $10 for shipping/insurance. That's a steal, as these mics go for $300 new anywhere else!

I hope this is helpful! Good luck!!! :)
 
There's actually a used MR-8 up for sale right now, on this board: https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?threadid=89388

These units are great for beginners like you and I! The big downside is the lack of a hard drive; it uses compact flash cards and comes with a 128mb card (WAY bigger than the cards any of the other similar units are packaged with by the way). But if you're only doing a 2-4 track recording, space isn't an issue. And with the easy-to-use USB capability, you can just transfer your tracks to your computer, then erase from the card and record some more, and then you can put it all together using software and plugins and stuff, like I discussed above! Lotsa fun! :D
 
Just because a HD cannot record video at a smooth frame rate does not mean that it cannot record music without drops. Even so get a faster and larger hard disk and you are still ahead of what you are talking about buying.

You say that you are interested in learning and experimenting. Good. You can learn how a compressor works with a software one as a hardware one.

All you need to get beginning to learn about sound recording is a good two or four input sound interface, good monitors, some microphones, preamps unless your audio interface has good ones, and a copy of Pro Tools Free or n-track or so on. So much of what sound editing is nowdays is done on computers that learning the techniques of computer editing will be your most valuable lessons in getting ahead.
 
Thanks

Thanks A LOT GUYS!
Especially Tom for his extremely helpfull post. OK, so, at the moment im getting the idea that i had the wrong idea and that my signal chain was too long and i was wasting money. So am i right in saying i should proly be loking at getting equipment based around the following:

Good quality Digital Multi-Track, but not spending to much $.
GOOD 2 ch Pre-Amp
Pair of mics( NT-5's still on my list)
Some GOOD Cables
Some boom stands
Some good software and plugins

So i should use Plugins instead of getting outboard equipment( for now)?. Wont this have too much of a "Digital" sound, or isnt it noticable.
Also, what Pre's ould you guys recommend for the NT-5's?
Any other Suggestions on other important equipment, also, what cables would be considred GOOD, are their specific brands or anything?

Thanks
Jeroth
 
So........
Hav i got the right idea now? Just need to know so i can start looking at brands and products soon. BTW, would i need acompressor to get better recordings(for acoustic guitar)because someone said earlier that they wouldnt use them for acoustic guitar, just wandering why not.

Thanks,
Jeroth
 
You doin' OK. If you're not getting a mixer now, consider making the stand-alone an 8-tracker with a hard drive.-Richie
 
Unless you are looking for a special effect or are recording something with a huge dynamic range do not compress your tracks as you are recording them. Compression removes dynamic range and cannot be undone after the fact. Put more care into setting your levels.

Your beginning setup looks good. You can go instead wit a 2 or 4 channel audio interface and record direct to the hard disk instead.

This is my beginner setup, mostly for vocal, voiceovers, and choral)

Edirol UA-5 (USB Audio interface and preamps combined)
2 Large diameter condensers with shock mounts (MXL V93M)
Mic Stand.
laptop computer with n-track.

Other than the particulars not that different.
 
Re: Thanks

Jeroth said:
Also, what Pre's ould you guys recommend for the NT-5's?
Any other Suggestions on other important equipment, also, what cables would be considred GOOD, are their specific brands or anything?
Click to expand...

I'd say go to your local Guitar Center NOW with a printout of the thread about the DMP3 in the Rack equipment forum. The M-audio DMP-3 is one of the best transparent pre's under $500, and right now you can get one for just $119!!! It's a no-brainer at that price!

For cables, I bought a Blue Blueberry cable. Guitar Center will sell you one for under $30; if you argue a little I bet you can get it for $20 or $25. Try to find a better price online and print it out and bring it in. I don't know if it's worth the extra, but Blue also makes a Kiwi cable that's supposed to be better than the Blueberry (it's 4 cables wrapped together in one, to minimize interference and all that stuff I don't understand :) ). I got one at GC for $35 (that's discounted), but you could get it cheaper maybe.

There's also a sale now where you can get an Oktava MC-012 for $75 at Guitar Center. Two would be half the price of the NT-5's, and they're pretty darn good mics for acoustic guitar.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top