have audiophiles taken over home recording?

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Another point is that 96k and 192k are here or right on the horizon along with higher bit rates, yet people are more in love than ever with compression. But why expand the dynamic range just to squash it? It almost implies that much range isn't needed (at least for radio music...for orchestras and classical music they probably would benefit). Any thoughts on this?
 
Most people could not tell you whether the original recording was done at 44.1k, 48k or 96k. Most of the benefits are so insignificant as to be moot. 48k and 32 bit floating point is more than enough for most recording at home. However all your plugins will sound smoother and "more better" processing at 96k, provided they are designed to do so. Of course doubling sample rate also doubles file size so get a big hard drive. A busy project studio can fill up a terrabyte drive fast.
 
If you want lo-fi just record lo-fi. Personally I want the best reproduction of what's coming out of my amp/drums/vocals as possible and I'll manipulate the distortion in my DAW.
 
If you want to hear if lo-fi still lives, visit the singing forum lol.
 
The way I've always looked at this way. If digital, noiseless, computer recording was invented first, you wouldn't know what lo-fi is.

Over the decades people have used the best they can get, to the best of their abilities, to get as clean a signal as possible.
 
I was listening to some sixties music which was very poorly recorded compared to what else was available at the time. However, that too applies to all eras.

You wouldn't of happened to be listening to Blue Cheers 'Vincibus Eruptus' would you?
Terrible sounding album!
 
You wouldn't of happened to be listening to Blue Cheers 'Vincibus Eruptus' would you?
Terrible sounding album!

I remember hearing Blue Cheer's "Summertime Blues" way back when and being totally impressed at the time. I haven't heard 'Vincibus Eruptus', so I'll take your word for it.

But if you jump onto Youtube, you quickly learn how badly a lot of sixties pop was recorded.
 
I remember hearing Blue Cheer's "Summertime Blues" way back when and being totally impressed at the time. I haven't heard 'Vincibus Eruptus', so I'll take your word for it.

But if you jump onto Youtube, you quickly learn how badly a lot of sixties pop was recorded.

Yeah...I like their version of Summer Time blues too. Thats on the album.I hadn't heard anything else from them and was curious. I got the Cd and...blahhhh! Its one of the muddiest poorly recorded albums I have heard. I got rid of that album pretty quick.
 
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My interest in "audio" began some 54 years ago when I was about 14. I was interested in electronics but never "ham" radio nor later CB.

Making recordings of any sort of quality was very hard, particularly as I had no money!

It was quite obvious to everyone in sound repro that the technology lagged far behind any faithful sound quality be it in capture, storage or final delivery. It was a slow and painful process but microphones, pre amps and loudspeakers DID improve and slowly became more affordable but we were still stuck with that bloody awful tape!

It never occurred to us that we should stop striving for sonic "perfection"? The MUSIC was the be all and end all of the process, NOT the process!

My first encounter with digital recording was a JVC hi-fi sound VCR (one of the first ones with a switchable limiter and no auto volume) WHAT a revelation! At last we could record without noise! Next was a Philips digital cassette recorder and then, some 7 years ago we went full on into PC recording. NOW we could stop worrying about noise, distortion and the tape running out!


Dave.
 
Another point is that 96k and 192k are here or right on the horizon along with higher bit rates, yet people are more in love than ever with compression. But why expand the dynamic range just to squash it? It almost implies that much range isn't needed (at least for radio music...for orchestras and classical music they probably would benefit). Any thoughts on this?

I think your confusing sample rates and bit depth? I think higher sample rates extend the frequency range of the recording not the dynamics. Dynamics are increased by recording higher (24bit) as opposed to 16, but maybe an engineer can confirm that.

Anyway, develop your own style of production that makes you happy, don't worry about all those "How to" You tube videos. You will learn more here asking specific questions in regards to your own work, which is all that really matters. Welcome to HR.
 
Depends on the noise source.

If it's something related to the performance maybe it's a "good" thing and has a context in the performance. Some artifacts are just plain bad playing technique. Most folks don't realize they are doing stuff in a way that interferes with what they are trying to capture until they try to capture it. ;) Most folks also don't realize how sensitive condenser mics are, or that using certain mic patterns will pick up room sounds that make a take sound decidedly un-professional.

If it's the train horn sounding through town I really don't want it in my take. Or a ringing phone. Or the air cleaner.

Most home recording environments are less-than-optimal in terms of outside noise, room modes that deliver crappy sound, flutter echo, and any other weird artifacts that sound less than what most folks would consider to be a "good" recording.

Maybe what you are seeing as "obsession" about noise is really people trying to figure out how to get what they want in the take without the stuff they don't want in the take.


I've spent thousands of hours listening to bootleg recordings, some very well done, others suffering from high-generation tape hiss and all manner of artifacts. Some of the best musical experiences are among the worst possible recordings or have been derived from degraded sources. At some point in many of those listening experiences the hiss becomes superseded by the content and isn't a distraction. The real beauty and value in many of those old bootlegs is that they are the only documentation that remains of those performances, for better or for worse.
 
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Summertime Blues seemed to be a lucky take--the flip side is what the rest of the album was like, lol.

I wouldn't put much stock in a lot of YT videos, if most of those people knew what they were doing, they'd be too busy to be making videos.
 
I'm not sure. Those recordings are old, done on a 4-track as a teenager.

Is the point to get on radio?

I get your point about lomax. But was he obsessing over noise in his signal chain or was he out there recording? We'll never really know. Watching youtube, it seems like everyone is obsessed with pristine signals. Zero noise. I understand that noise can fatigue the ear, but not low levels. So what is actually so great about a pristine signal? Is all noise bad? What about brown, pink, and white noise. What about feedback? Distortion. Even analog clipping. All of it has been used in recordings, and each can sound good.

By the way, I have a PC studio, a digital field recorder, and a 4-track. All have their place. The pristine signal even has its place. But why is it the gold standard and why obsess over it? That's what I don't understand.

The goal depends on the individual and his intention regarding the use of the recording. Most of the recording I do is either for me to practice along with at home, or to capture a live performance so that I can review it or share it with friends and family. For my needs I don't need pro-studio level results. I would like to learn to get the best results I can out of the gear I have, and the gear I can afford. If you really want to get something to the level that it needs to be at to get on modern day radio then isn't it easier and cheaper to rent a pro-studio and recording engineer for that particular project? I do realize that there are some on here who are at the pro-level with gear and knowledge, but I would guess that isn't the typical person who comes to Homerecording.com looking for advice.
 
What's YOUR point?

I'm not sure. Those recordings are old, done on a 4-track as a teenager.

Is the point to get on radio?

I get your point about lomax. But was he obsessing over noise in his signal chain or was he out there recording? We'll never really know. Watching youtube, it seems like everyone is obsessed with pristine signals. Zero noise. I understand that noise can fatigue the ear, but not low levels. So what is actually so great about a pristine signal? Is all noise bad? What about brown, pink, and white noise. What about feedback? Distortion. Even analog clipping. All of it has been used in recordings, and each can sound good.

By the way, I have a PC studio, a digital field recorder, and a 4-track. All have their place. The pristine signal even has its place. But why is it the gold standard and why obsess over it? That's what I don't understand.

So my understanding is that you just don't care whether the recording sounds as good as possible or not. In a live situation (concert or field recording), even though you have lots of background noise, you try for the best sound possible in any given situation. This doesn't make me "obsessed", it's a practical approach. Ambient sounds can add greatly to a live performance, but have no place in a studio recording. IMHO
 
It's all about the performance! If you capture a great performance with noise & cheap gear, it's better than not capturing it at all. But, if you can record without the noise with better gear, you can hear more of the subtle artistic details (that can be masked by noise) in a vocal or guitar, or any other instruments for that matter. That, IMHO, adds up to a better listening experience. I see both sides of this question, as I have made unplanned live recordings with a handheld digital recorder, converted great performances on cassette and open-reel tapes to digital media, and recorded in a great studio-preferring the latter.
 
I subscribe to the Tony Maserati gear guy who says, "If it sounds right, it is right." I do radio shows, not music, so my needs are far more simple.

But I do question the (sometimes) snide remarks about how ALL USB MICs are only for podcasts. So, when you plug in your analog Neumann or whatever, and you want to get the sound into your PC or recorder, you use a ----what? Let me guess: an analog to digital converter which likely uses USB or Firewire, etc. Aside from the better performance of the mic itself, how much better is the digital conversion versus the circuit in a good quality USB mic?
 
OK, audiophile here, so you have a nice, juicy local target. True, I haven't done any YouTube videos, but I design and build all my own gear (mikes, preamps, A/D...) just to get the best possible performance. Before you ask, I'll confess that I suck at playing, so just do that in private for fun. But I can recognize talent and genius in others when I hear it.

In my mind, it breaks down like this:

1. The performance is first and foremost. I don't worry about it, I know that if my mikes are pointing at Lee Barber or Peter Mulvey or Southpaw Jones or whomever, the song and the performance will be great. And if it isn't, they'll do it again, they're pros. So the hardest part is out of my hands (other than wheedling these guys into letting me record them).

2. Ambient sounds are what they are. They existed during that performance. The recording is just that, a RECORD of what that performance sounded like. One of my favorite commercial recordings ever was the first Redbird album- yeah, there's a dog barking or a truck going by now and then, but who cares? it was a living room, that was the musical event, and those sounds were part of its reality. The musical event was brilliant, and the recording puts you in that living room with those freakishly talented musicians.

3. The basic point of a recording, at least to me, is to capture a hint of the reality of that moment. The hint is better if you can capture it accurately, without the recording itself adding to or subtracting from any of the actual sound of those moments. There's a Heisenberg aspect to that. So... no added noise, distortion, compression, editing, nothing.

4. Other people like to use the recording as part of the creation process, altering the sounds, altering the performance, adding things that don't exist in the real world (paging George Martin). That's fine and a valid artistic statement. It's just not what I like. I like the sounds that musicians make in the raw. I like the sounds of their voices and their instruments. That, to me, is how the musical message burrows into my brain.

5. Format debates are overblown. Bit depth only determines the noise floor, and 16 bits for playback will put you below any ambient in any practical room. You need to record at higher bit depth to reduce the criticality of level setting, but when you're done, you can master to 16 and lose nothing. Sample rates only determine high frequency bandwidth and are significant for cats, dogs, and bats- when I've done blind listening trials with 192 vs 96 vs 48 vs 44.1, neither I nor any of the younger, sharper ears could hear any difference. If your listening gear doesn't like handling out-of-band signals and noise, 44.1 might even sound better than so-called hi res.

6. Did I mention that the song and its performance are the most important things?
 
There was a fascinating guest on (USA) National Public Radio who was concerned about people who spend WAY too much time trying to find and get the "best" of everthing. One or two things that are your passion is fine, but tryng to always and at any cost get the "best" watch, replacement windows, cheese, socks, deoderant, vacation, etc. wastes too much time.

It's like the guy who spends $10,000 more on a car to get the "best" mileage, which works out to be only 2 MPG better than the car that is $10,000 less.
 
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