fprod south
Member
I'm confused. What did you do? The guitar tracks sound much better.
SLuiCe
New member
Well, for one thing Phil, I removed some of the processing of the original mix. I brought it back to a drier state. One bad habit I had picked up was to try to fix the guitar sound with EQ. All I ended up with was a thinner guitar sound. But also I think the 4-track layering in the chorus might be smearing things up a bit. While I think this is one of those songs that would benefit from a Boogie, I simply can't afford one. I was just thinking a minute ago, that I'll wait on re-tracking this one. That EMG is not available for another week or two according to 8th Street, and I have no idea where the hell the EQ pedal is. I wish someone would just give me the list of things I need so I could just play my fucking guitar and not think so much. But it's never that simple is it. 
Khompewtur
*Retired*
What?
What, do you think you're some kind of Sluice or something??!??!?!?!?!?
; 0000 Sarrgaaaant Peeepah!
What, do you think you're some kind of Sluice or something??!??!?!?!?!?
; 0000 Sarrgaaaant Peeepah!
fprod south
Member
Gotcha.
Well this sounds a lot better with the processing removed (gee, do I know someone else going through that routine right now?). As I was listening I was thinking "this sounds more like a Marshall sounding like a Marshall" rather than "a Marshall trying to sound like a Boogie".
I know you - you'll get something even better when you retrack. But this sounds like the improvement you needed. It is a much fuller sound.
Well this sounds a lot better with the processing removed (gee, do I know someone else going through that routine right now?
). As I was listening I was thinking "this sounds more like a Marshall sounding like a Marshall" rather than "a Marshall trying to sound like a Boogie".I know you - you'll get something even better when you retrack. But this sounds like the improvement you needed. It is a much fuller sound.
S
sloop
Active member
Good tune!
Sounds good to me. I like the tonal density on this piece.
Sounds good to me. I like the tonal density on this piece.
studioviols
New member
SLuiCe said:
Well Tom, you certainly have used your 2000th post wisely.
The MINI-recorder intro, perhaps it is to long IMHO ? If you find yourself asking ... is it too long ... it prolly is ... aight ? IMHO. Here's a possible fix ...
Perhaps just :
... 'a tear ... a tear reveals the anguish ... (a few notes, a bass note ... or chord from a guitar here in the way-back ... maybe as if the song is going to start, tease them, but continuing ? ... our stomachs are just aching from swallowing the hate pill' ...
The listener doesn't have time to think ... 'oh a crappy wierdo recorded song' ... the lush guitar comes in and the 'fix is in'.
As this would serve to both introduce the hook, and on reflection or second listening the listener can then recognize ... 'oh maybe that was when he was writing' ... and you could draw a volume envelope to crescendo just slightly into the 'mini-recorder' hook before the main piece begins.
Also, using less of the mini-recorder may hook the listener better, as the shorter it might be, the more likely the listener is to say 'WTF', rather than start guessing on the first listening, which may distract them from becoming involved in the song somewhat as it cranks up.
The ... here's the seed, and here's what it grew into idea ... is good, but the seed maybe needs to be smaller, that whole mustard seed ... WhAcK !!! ... tin hat ...
You can cut it closer to 3:00 minutes also, because this could certainly get radio play. Since you are so close to 3:00, maybe try to cut closer.
Then the main song starts. And as I listen a second time to this particular mix of this tune, it's very Floydish ya know as it begins here, I'm really liking the whole sonic presentation more than the first mix.
OMG, the vocal is mixed so on top, very little sibilance, sounds fantastic, I can hear more of everything now, much more space to cast the ear about within. That's good. There's this nag on homerecording.com who is always bitching about vocal levels, he'd love this mix !
'You're' selling fear, we're buying fear' is getting lost a bit in the sibilance of effects land ? ... a bit.
But maybe it's how you are actually singing it, you can back off a bit on the effects and it's still going to be wonderful sounding. And I'm strictly talking about the understandability of the actual words.
Perhaps on the second phrase 'were buying fear', as you hold out the word fear, you can repeat in sing-speak the phrase 'youre selling fear' much more plainly as a backup vocal, ... and that would reinforce the literacy of the second phrase as well ... IMHO.
The vocal is generally much more listenable. At 2:05 I like the level of the backup vocal, you could hit it with more delay etc ... I don't think it's important we 'understand' the words from the backup vocal and we may even be distracted by having to listen and understand both 'sets of words'. We need to focus on the lead in the tenor register, so you could really use the backups here as more of a 'device' ... but don't dare bury them here.
There are probably some minor intonation issues between the backup 'falsetto' and the tenor lead at some points, and you could retrack the backups and solve this easily. The lead is damn near flawless, and nit is strictly IMHO on the lead vocal and I have none really.
Much, much, much better mix than the one I listened to last week.
I disclaim anything I have said about this mix and this song with the fact that it is a dynamite tune in it's sincerity and brevous intellectual pursuit. Of course to really understand what you are singing about here, you have to be informed, and you do your audience justice by not asking them to be 'too informed'. We understand.
Did you write this just before the airing of the 'State of the Union'
SLuiCe
New member
Yea, but who didn't see that address coming, eh? Spoiled my whole fucking St Patty's day party at the pub. "Yay...hoorah!...who needs a beer?......oh shit. He's on..."studioviols said:Did you write this just before the airing of the 'State of the Union'
You've made some great suggestions here Pat. I think I can use them all. Thanks!
khompy- Check your PM's...I'm in, one way or another....
fprod- ya exactly the same lessons really...cheers!
sloop- Thanks bro!
mbuster
New member
"Hate Pill" has been track#1 on my Sluice CD for quite a while. I'm not going to listen to a remix. I like it as is (as was?) so there!
P
PiltdownMan
New member
Dude. Are you Tool, or is Tool you?
Who's that fucking band that tried to make a career by copying tool? I can't remember their name now. This is WAY better than that. This is way better than any song on the last Tool album -- and possibly the best song I've heard on this forum.
Don't mean to offend by comparing to Tool, but it's got the complexity, the vocals, the lyrics, the tonality. That's not an insult, but you can't tell me this song wasn't influenced by them. Please.
Maynard has little on you, vocally. And that makes me hate you.
Anyway... I have to reprise the "little too much bass" comment I read earlier (I'm paraphrasing, but you get the message). It's not offensive, per se, but my Klipsch 2.1s with Yamaha bookshelfs for surround are feeling the strain. Seriously, though, it's a "barely" kind of thing. We're talking about a decible.
This is one of the few songs from this site (including mine!) that I've felt that I should save and play for other people.
Not to suck up to the SLuiCe, but this song is NOT label quality. (Um... that's the ultimate compliment, by the way.)
Who's that fucking band that tried to make a career by copying tool? I can't remember their name now. This is WAY better than that. This is way better than any song on the last Tool album -- and possibly the best song I've heard on this forum.
Don't mean to offend by comparing to Tool, but it's got the complexity, the vocals, the lyrics, the tonality. That's not an insult, but you can't tell me this song wasn't influenced by them. Please.
Maynard has little on you, vocally. And that makes me hate you.
Anyway... I have to reprise the "little too much bass" comment I read earlier (I'm paraphrasing, but you get the message). It's not offensive, per se, but my Klipsch 2.1s with Yamaha bookshelfs for surround are feeling the strain. Seriously, though, it's a "barely" kind of thing. We're talking about a decible.
This is one of the few songs from this site (including mine!) that I've felt that I should save and play for other people.
Not to suck up to the SLuiCe, but this song is NOT label quality. (Um... that's the ultimate compliment, by the way.)
Kelly5150
New member
I couldn't compare it to the first mix, cuz I usually just stream mp3's, unless theres a chance of not being able to listen again, like when you say you probably wont keep something, (Perry) then I download it....but this sounds incredible...
Its nice and punchy without being muddy...
And this song was always in the top 5 favorite songs of yours.. IMO...
Anyway, without being able to compare, I'm just thinking this sounds more defined and clear...
You sure make those canned drums sound good....and being the guitar junkie I am, there is never too much guitar for me...
Did you shorten this?
I'm thinking it was longer...hmmm...
A tasty 30 second guitar solo would sure sound good in there somewhere....
Excellent job man,,,
Its nice and punchy without being muddy...
And this song was always in the top 5 favorite songs of yours.. IMO...
Anyway, without being able to compare, I'm just thinking this sounds more defined and clear...
You sure make those canned drums sound good....and being the guitar junkie I am, there is never too much guitar for me...
Did you shorten this?
I'm thinking it was longer...hmmm...
A tasty 30 second guitar solo would sure sound good in there somewhere....
Excellent job man,,,
Pedullist
Stop it, I can't breathe
Well...I A-B'd this with the older version.
This one is much, MUCH, better.
As usual, I hate the fuckin' song. You sure can play yer guitar, but can't you write a song with a proper HOOK for once in your life? Who's going to play this one the radio?
Love the song, of course. You rock, Tom!
This one is much, MUCH, better.
As usual, I hate the fuckin' song. You sure can play yer guitar, but can't you write a song with a proper HOOK for once in your life? Who's going to play this one the radio?
Love the song, of course. You rock, Tom!
skids
New member
Tom-
I remember this one. Awesome as usual. The guitars and vocals sound fantastic. Everything sounds awesome actually even on these cheap headphone. Usually nothing I listen to here has quite this good of a sound on these headphones.
However, I do think the bass is too high. If I hear rumbling on these things with absolutely no ability to transmit bass properly then I am worried. Although, maybe it just sounds a little rumbly because of the headphones. Just another perpective as the world is full of different listening environments. Take it for what it's worth...probably not much.
You rock as usual. I can never say enough. Good work!
Listening again - Lyrics are very nice as well and I can hear them perfectly! Love that "shut up! shut up! shut up!" whispered scream!
I remember this one. Awesome as usual. The guitars and vocals sound fantastic. Everything sounds awesome actually even on these cheap headphone. Usually nothing I listen to here has quite this good of a sound on these headphones.
However, I do think the bass is too high. If I hear rumbling on these things with absolutely no ability to transmit bass properly then I am worried. Although, maybe it just sounds a little rumbly because of the headphones. Just another perpective as the world is full of different listening environments. Take it for what it's worth...probably not much.
You rock as usual. I can never say enough. Good work!
Listening again - Lyrics are very nice as well and I can hear them perfectly!
Love that "shut up! shut up! shut up!" whispered scream!
dobro
Well-known member
I'm useless for mix feedback when stuff sounds this good - to me this one all sounds good. All I can talk about is the song - this is typical Sluice music - it's energetic and beautiful and set against raw fucking emotion. The result is something intense and alive. This one sounds to me like it should go on the same album as the other ten or dozen songs of yours I've heard - most of them sound like they're sprung from the same season of writing or feeling.
I keep wondering what you're gonna call this album. You gonna name it after the one song on the album that best sums it up, or you gonna give it its own name?
Good, good work. You're one of people who post stuff here who I take as a standard of quality to aim at. You've narrowed that gap between homer and pro way way down. The main frontier left to you now is some form of music you haven't stumbled onto yet. It's an awesome prospect. I get the shivers just thinking about it LOL. And moist eyes.
I keep wondering what you're gonna call this album. You gonna name it after the one song on the album that best sums it up, or you gonna give it its own name?
Good, good work. You're one of people who post stuff here who I take as a standard of quality to aim at. You've narrowed that gap between homer and pro way way down. The main frontier left to you now is some form of music you haven't stumbled onto yet. It's an awesome prospect. I get the shivers just thinking about it LOL. And moist eyes.
SLuiCe
New member
I get the fear of wearing out my welcome lately when I bump my threads, but I'd feel totally wrong not telling you guys "publicly" how much I appreciate the respectful responses I get from you. You tell me when it sounds wrong, you tell me when it sounds right. It's great, and I don't feel the need to kiss anyone's ass. You know I mean it. I mean for example, Dobro, I could write a song out of some of your reviews. They're so mindful, and intelligently written. When I read things like that, all efforts are rewarded. Thank you.
When I see hostility that's been flaring up in some of these threads lately I get kinda sick. Some people just do not get it. But I always seem to get heard by people who do.
mbuster- Don't worry about it, Mark. Keep the one you like. I won't be posting this on the board again, but I'm going to retrack the heavy guitars once I get a sound I like. Thanks for checkin' in though. I appreciate it.
Piltdownman- That bit about Maynard having little on me vocally was a bit of a stretch, but I humbly thank you for the encouragement nonetheless. This song was definitely NOT influenced by them directly. Nothing I do is intensionally drawn from anyone else. But I don't intentionally delete an idea just because it reminds me of something else either, and i don't think anyone should. I've been told my singing sounds like Maynard, Roger Waters, Dave Mathews and at least 100 other people, half of whom haven't heard of. I've learned that this should be considered not so much a compliment to me, but a tribute to those people. For they have careers, and I do not. lol! (Little joke there. ) Thanks brotha. (PS. Try not to get sucked into the drama here. It will only hurt your music. Stay focused and write for you and you alone.)
Kelly- Thanks a ton....kind words. I didn't actually do any cutting or re-recording on this. I cleaned up the EQ and levels a bit. Mostly gave back some of what I cut in the first mix, in terms of EQ. I had developed a few bad habits but I feel I'm on the road to recovery. As for slipping a solo in there...well... there'll be more songs. Thank you.
Pedullist- Well if I must respond to you... Bah...fuck it. Emails should be good enough no?
skids- Thanks skids. Ya, I think the rumbling is in those ranges I mentioned earlier. The bass on this is a keyboard, so I'm always afraid to EQ it when I have to use keyboard. And I didn't want to cut too much guitar since that's what this post was about...the guitar sound. I'm on a maddening hunt for a heavy guitar tone I can call mine. But the bass on this will be replaced with a real one for the CD. Actually, I think only one track on the cd will have keyboard bass, maybe two. Anyway, you didn't ask me about that did ya? LOL (shut up shut up shut up...) Cheers!
dobro- Every now and then I think I've got the album name. But I haven't committed yet. I've considering calling it Anxiety, which is the title of the last song I've written for it, though the song still needs a good deal of work. But the problem I have with that title is that it doesn't capture the contrasting lighter shades of the music either, the hope I feel at least once every day. A large amount of the songs, though sprung from "raw emotion" as you insightfully say, are about growth, and self awareness and self improvement and communication, and simply taking advantage of life while it's still ours.. So we'll see if I can sum that up in a word or two..or four.
Once this one is done (hopefully by the year's end) I plan on doing a LOT of experimentation. The focus will be more on writing and expression and exploring, now that I've learned a few important things about recording. It's only been about two years of recording, but it's been an INTENSE two years trying to understand just how this shit works. Still lots to learn, but I really just want to focus on the music itself now. That's what's important. Thanks again for giving a shit, Paul. Seriously.
When I see hostility that's been flaring up in some of these threads lately I get kinda sick. Some people just do not get it. But I always seem to get heard by people who do.
mbuster- Don't worry about it, Mark. Keep the one you like. I won't be posting this on the board again, but I'm going to retrack the heavy guitars once I get a sound I like. Thanks for checkin' in though. I appreciate it.
Piltdownman- That bit about Maynard having little on me vocally was a bit of a stretch, but I humbly thank you for the encouragement nonetheless. This song was definitely NOT influenced by them directly. Nothing I do is intensionally drawn from anyone else. But I don't intentionally delete an idea just because it reminds me of something else either, and i don't think anyone should. I've been told my singing sounds like Maynard, Roger Waters, Dave Mathews and at least 100 other people, half of whom haven't heard of. I've learned that this should be considered not so much a compliment to me, but a tribute to those people. For they have careers, and I do not. lol! (Little joke there.
) Thanks brotha. (PS. Try not to get sucked into the drama here. It will only hurt your music. Stay focused and write for you and you alone.)Kelly- Thanks a ton....kind words. I didn't actually do any cutting or re-recording on this. I cleaned up the EQ and levels a bit. Mostly gave back some of what I cut in the first mix, in terms of EQ. I had developed a few bad habits but I feel I'm on the road to recovery. As for slipping a solo in there...well... there'll be more songs.
Thank you. Pedullist- Well if I must respond to you... Bah...fuck it. Emails should be good enough no?
skids- Thanks skids. Ya, I think the rumbling is in those ranges I mentioned earlier. The bass on this is a keyboard, so I'm always afraid to EQ it when I have to use keyboard. And I didn't want to cut too much guitar since that's what this post was about...the guitar sound. I'm on a maddening hunt for a heavy guitar tone I can call mine. But the bass on this will be replaced with a real one for the CD. Actually, I think only one track on the cd will have keyboard bass, maybe two. Anyway, you didn't ask me about that did ya? LOL (shut up shut up shut up...) Cheers!
dobro- Every now and then I think I've got the album name. But I haven't committed yet. I've considering calling it Anxiety, which is the title of the last song I've written for it, though the song still needs a good deal of work. But the problem I have with that title is that it doesn't capture the contrasting lighter shades of the music either, the hope I feel at least once every day. A large amount of the songs, though sprung from "raw emotion" as you insightfully say, are about growth, and self awareness and self improvement and communication, and simply taking advantage of life while it's still ours.. So we'll see if I can sum that up in a word or two..or four.
Once this one is done (hopefully by the year's end) I plan on doing a LOT of experimentation. The focus will be more on writing and expression and exploring, now that I've learned a few important things about recording. It's only been about two years of recording, but it's been an INTENSE two years trying to understand just how this shit works. Still lots to learn, but I really just want to focus on the music itself now. That's what's important. Thanks again for giving a shit, Paul.
Seriously.
Toki987
Rock Steady
Signature.. The low end doesn't get get really heavy till about 2:15 and then stays a lil close to the edge thru about 2:40 but didint break up here. The vocals get washed over a little by the guitar chords from 2:30 till the resolve around 2:50. The bass tone kicks ass...
participant
New member
Furthering my habit of getting to your threads late...
Vocal reverb much more natural here...
Snare drum sounds really good... the synth patches really add something.
Some of D. Gilmour's dna must have gone into your pre-natal mix, Tom... your phrasing could go right into a Floyd tune...
It's really asinine for someone on phones to give mix advice to someone who's doing as well as you are at this point... so... file this under "hmmm" and keep going in that same direction... it's been really inspiring and successful, imo.
C
Vocal reverb much more natural here...
Snare drum sounds really good... the synth patches really add something.
Some of D. Gilmour's dna must have gone into your pre-natal mix, Tom... your phrasing could go right into a Floyd tune...
It's really asinine for someone on phones to give mix advice to someone who's doing as well as you are at this point... so... file this under "hmmm" and keep going in that same direction... it's been really inspiring and successful, imo.
C