Hardware Consoles: Disappointments In Recording Gear #1

  • Thread starter Thread starter kcearl
  • Start date Start date
kcearl

kcearl

I see deaf people
interesting perspective



It’s 2013. 25 years ago hardware consoles were an essential tool. There wasn’t any alternative method to blending signals, routing signals, etc. The DAW / audio interface is VERY close to entirely replacing the analog console for the most demanding of users and for many people it already replaced the console 10+ years ago.

Since a hardware mixing console isn’t something we need anymore, it’s become something we want. Why? Nostalgia? Legitimacy? Radical improvements in recording quality? Let’s find out.

I’ve had my Toft ATB32 for 2+ years. I couldn’t sleep I was so obsessed with getting a console back in 2010. I’d wake up at 8am (3-4 hours of sleep for me) just to pour through the usual bs ruts/rants on the web. I was so consumed by the notion of “stepping up” and getting a console that it was affecting my ability to sleep and work.

I really expected my recordings to explode when I got all that “magic color”.

Now I feel like a alcoholic Nick Nolte talking about his ex-wife in any good 80s movie when I think of the console sound now. [Grizzly bear voice]What f’ing console sound????[/Grizzly bear voice]

Change The Name To Routing Machine

So what exciting thing does a hardware analog console let you do. The one BIG TIME feature of analog consoles can only be summed up by monotone comedian Steven Wright.

[Steven Wright voice]The hardware console does let you route signals. Thanks.[/Steven Wright voice]

Article Over. That’s my feelings. That’s what I got for the price of a new Kia and 30 days straight of soldering.

Let’s keep going.

Routing has many utilitarian uses. So do those 8 channel line level rack mixers. (“So do washing machines”, says one of the grandpas in Christmas Vacation.) The ability to route a bunch of crap together is of use.

I like being able to record the Skype audio output from my video computer to my recording computer on a separate track from my mic for interviews (Danny Danzi, Ethan Winer, etc). I like being able to record 5 guitar mics and sum them to a single bus if I want to…I did it a few times…..it was over rated I thought. I like having my 1/8th jack always on 31/32 so buddies can play audio from their phones. I like being able to feed the drummer a click, but not the rest of the live band. (That can be done with software pretty easily in most cases.)

Umm. I’m struggling to find more options, but I’m sure they exist.

Analog Summing?

Analog summing is as hyped as Michael Jackson. Mixerman based his reputation on it.

There are two sides of the analog summing camp. There are those of us who spent hours on as rigidly empirical tests as possible isolating as many factors as possible to hear that “magic” and there are those who DID NOT bother with any of these tests.

Those who skipped the tests are relying on faith. I had a rather spiritual buddy who prayed for twins. He got ‘em. What does that mean? Praying For Twins.....And Getting Them

People running their audio through a passive summer like the Fulcrum (I made one without the rack for $2.75 per channel) and then running that to an API or Neve are hearing the API or Neve. I’m not sure why that’s not overt. Has anyone ever bothered isolating just the Fulcum? I’d love to hear that. (I’m aware of the potential flaws in this.)

Analog summing through the ATB32 is a joke in my experience. (It doesn’t sound BAD. It barely has a damn sound at all no matter how hard you push it unless you just destroy the damn console. Then it just sounds bad.) The sonic changes are sooooo so small I can’t even put into words how damn uninteresting I found it. iZotope Trash2 on the 2bus is WAY (as in you’d need to use scientific notation to ditch all the zeros at the end) more interesting when used with ears.

It’s my view that the Toft ATB32 was designed to be as clean as possible. If not, they failed because the damn thing does almost nothing to the sound when using the line-level inputs. If the ATB32 is a real deal “colored” console, then it’s clear that console coloration is the most boring thing on Earth. It’s as bold as diet ice cream and as exciting as a wife who won’t nail you because she doesn’t like her self-image. THAT kind of color.

The Tape Op Review

Tape Op did a review of the Toft ATB32 I read it back before I bought the Toft ATB32. I remember thinking, “Hell yeah!”

I re-read the article. I’m an idiot! Never does the reviewer say the Toft does anything to improve sound (minus the equalizers), but he does go on and on how some other console he owned screwed up the sound and the Toft didn’t. This is a very old school perspective. Back in the old days gear sucked so bad you had to look for gear that sucked less.

In an age where DAWs don’t suck at all (they have no inherent sound), this notion of dreaming of a console that sucks less is entirely antiquated. It’s very similar to looking for a VCR with Hi-Fi right now.

When you found a console that wasn’t dull, muddy, or noisy you said, “Wow!!!”. Now sound is “too good” and we have to scrape up ways to tear it up with transformers and such.
The Reliability

The stereo output volume is so screwed we had to quit using it and go back to the master fader.
Now the left side cuts out of the master fader if you adjust it.
Channel 23 constantly dips in level by about 15dB and unplugging it and plugging the TRS input is the only way to fix it. This is a documented problem on this console and not caused by my cables, apparently.
2 EQs don’t work
2 channels don’t route to various buses

I imagine in a year I’ll have 10 more things to add to this list. “Console maintenance” is a fraudulent term. Replacing a transmission is NOT maintenance on a car. Not by my definition ‘Nuf said.

I’d be surprised if it cost less than a grand to fix all this stuff when you factor shipping. I may be able to do it all myself, but that sounds like a day from hell.

I don’t face these types of epic-undertaking problems much. I’m not used to it. Most home recorders would not.

I Don’t Blame The Toft

I want to point out that the Toft ATB32 does not suck. It’s been an excellent tool. I have a good shovel. It digs holes when I apply the effort. The problem is I know no one who believes in magic shovels. Most of us audio jackasses believe in magic consoles. That’s the damn problem.

The preamps on the Toft are very good (maybe a hair bottom heavy for my tastes, but they aren’t remotely cloudy). The EQ is as fun as a “simple” EQ can be. It does do an intentional thing that I like sometimes. A person could mix the old fashioned way if they could make that workflow work. Other than the problems listed above, it’s been reliable.

The Fake Console

If I could do it all over again, I’d rig up a fake console. I’d make a huge spectrum analyzer thing with Arduinos (and brawn) with a bunch of knobs that control MIDI and I’d probably just use the console as a monitor mixer for tracking bands. Maybe I’d bust up an old Behringer board and split the signal beforehand or something. I don’t know. I could make a mad scientist thing that would get the client wow factor and be a tool that does more than control headphone mixes and monitor levels.

Really, I don’t even need that. All I really need is an audio interface with a DSP routing matrix that I can control with a control surface. (Not sure if that’s out or not.) Controlling headphone mixes on the fly is a feature I can’t live without any more. Reverb should always be .04 seconds away. THAT is something analog consoles are awesome at.

I wish that was the marketing headline. “The Best Headphone Mixes EVER!!!!” No one would buy it.

Conclusion


So why are consoles so in demand? Nostalgia. That’s my formal answer. I have no other explanation. Nostalgia (ie: tradition) gets you Christmas and the Vietnam War. I guess it’s a double edged sword.

Their notions of “sound quality” is a joke, although I applaud Toft for making a console that doesn’t do any damage, but the magic audio fairy didn’t pay me a visit. (Good, he sounds gross. SMILEY)

Headphone mixes on the fly are great.

Snakes cost a fortune in money or time. Take your pick.

“Maintenance” scares the hell out of me.

It’s possible that if I had spend $20k or $50k or $300k on a console (When does it end???), I may have different thoughts. I doubt it. The only thing a console can do tonally is distort. I’ve heard rumors in electronic nerd circles that transformers are the king of distortion. My gut says we can find a better way to distort things….or just use iZotope Trash2.

By Brandon Drury

Hardware Consoles: Disappointments In Recording Gear #1 | Home Recording Blog
 
You gotta check out the Neve console (one of only four in the world!) that was at Sound City now in Studio 606.
 
when you see the pros getting rid of their consoles, then pay attention.
until then......
 
im not sure they have the consoles most home producers can afford :)
 
Oh brother! When people are referring to analog consoles like they're some unknown alien beast we're in trouble! Well... you guess are in trouble I guess. This is the epitome of noobs "Teaching" noobs. :D
 
im not sure they have the consoles most home producers can afford :)

bingo!!

lol

BUT you'll still see knee jerk reactions from folks who do not understand this, and take brandon's take on it at face value.
 
bingo!!

lol

BUT you'll still see knee jerk reactions from folks who do not understand this, and take brandon's take on it at face value.

Exactly.

He didn't get his expected money's worth out of the Toft 'cuz the "magic audio" fairy didn't visit him....therefore consoles are a waste of money! :D
Is he getting rid of the Toft...?...I didn't see that anywhere in his rant. :)

This past weekend I had a couple of people over....needed to track some female BVox for a new song, and rather than fire up the 2" with the original tracks, I decided to just go direct to the DAW where I had already dumped the tape tracks, and had already done some edits to the arrnagement...so that seemed like the best approach.
Well...now I needed to set up a cue mix, for two other people, plus tie in some EQ and reverb in real time for the cue mix, and then also monitor it all via headphones (since everyone was in the same room) rather than through the monitors.
I stared at the DAW and the converters for like 10 minutes, and no matter how I approached the routing problem, there was just no simple way.
Fire up the trusty console....and 5 minutes later had cue mix, FX and EQ on the cue mic...and a separate headphone monitor line for me.

But it's not just "routing"...there's aspects of a console that change how you mix compared to a DAW, and at the end of the day there can be a sonic impact (regardless if the "magic audio" fairy visits or not)...and the real deal is a lot about "comfort zones". I find it much easier to work with a console both when tracking and mixing, using both hands, and at quick glance seeing everything before me, and easily making rapid, multiple changes as the mix is playing....than using a mouse per channel.
Yeah, there's control surfaces, but most only give you partial immediate access to everything, unless you pony up for some of the expensive, elaborate control surfaces or digital mixers...in which case I'll take a decent analog console.

And yeah....when the big studios all sell off their consoles, then I'll know they are onto something....
....and I'll gladly pick up a used Neve for next to nothing! ;)

I think Brandon got caught up for the wrong reasons/expectations...and yeah, in some cases, for an individual home-rec setup, a console may not make a lot of difference....but that doesn't apply to every situation.
Even with a full-tilt digital setup where I can do it all ITB....I still use my console regularly, and I am still planning to upgrade one day to an even better analog console when I can find something in my budget.
 
Exactly.

He didn't get his expected money's worth out of the Toft 'cuz the "magic audio" fairy didn't visit him....therefore consoles are a waste of money! :D
Is he getting rid of the Toft...?...I didn't see that anywhere in his rant. :)

This past weekend I had a couple of people over....needed to track some female BVox for a new song, and rather than fire up the 2" with the original tracks, I decided to just go direct to the DAW where I had already dumped the tape tracks, and had already done some edits to the arrnagement...so that seemed like the best approach.
Well...now I needed to set up a cue mix, for two other people, plus tie in some EQ and reverb in real time for the cue mix, and then also monitor it all via headphones (since everyone was in the same room) rather than through the monitors.
I stared at the DAW and the converters for like 10 minutes, and no matter how I approached the routing problem, there was just no simple way.
Fire up the trusty console....and 5 minutes later had cue mix, FX and EQ on the cue mic...and a separate headphone monitor line for me.

But it's not just "routing"...there's aspects of a console that change how you mix compared to a DAW, and at the end of the day there can be a sonic impact (regardless if the "magic audio" fairy visits or not)...and the real deal is a lot about "comfort zones". I find it much easier to work with a console both when tracking and mixing, using both hands, and at quick glance seeing everything before me, and easily making rapid, multiple changes as the mix is playing....than using a mouse per channel.
Yeah, there's control surfaces, but most only give you partial immediate access to everything, unless you pony up for some of the expensive, elaborate control surfaces or digital mixers...in which case I'll take a decent analog console.

And yeah....when the big studios all sell off their consoles, then I'll know they are onto something....
....and I'll gladly pick up a used Neve for next to nothing! ;)

I think Brandon got caught up for the wrong reasons/expectations...and yeah, in some cases, for an individual home-rec setup, a console may not make a lot of difference....but that doesn't apply to every situation.
Even with a full-tilt digital setup where I can do it all ITB....I still use my console regularly, and I am still planning to upgrade one day to an even better analog console when I can find something in my budget.

Someone owns a desk :)
 
Yup...and I also own a full-tilt digital setup that includes multiple converters and a top-notch DAW app, with a bunch of great plugs. :)

So I have both options, and I am not making a choice based on only having one option.
Anyone that has never worked with decent analog consoles and outboard gear in a studio setting will not have an objective view...IMO.
Anyone that has multiple opitons, and chooses one over the other, is then doing so as a personal preference, and their choices are valid.
 
Great read, Keith--thanks for posting that. I think what he experienced is something that we've all probably experienced to some degree or another. Whether it's a mic, or a preamp, or an entire console, I think we've probably all fallen prey to "magic bullet" thinking.

After enough years at this, you realize that it's all cumulative--there is no magic bullet. All the tiny little improvements (from performance to room to mic to preamp) start to add up--but only if the performer on the front end (me) and the recordist on back end (also me) know what they're doing.

I'm glad I had that slightly "matured" outlook when I bought my console. After 10 solid years of recording without one, I bought a 20 year old console a couple months ago. Because of my seasoned outlook, I didn't buy it thinking it would make my home recordings sound like grammy winning hits! For me, it was all about workflow. I do complex recordings and I have a zillion mics--all dedicated to something specific (drums, amps, acoustics, vox, etc.). I like to keep everything set up and ready to go, so I don't have to re-patch everything based on what I'm tracking at a given moment. Because of that, I have a ton of outboard pres--and lots of them aren't exactly my favorites. So in spite of having 32 channels of pres, I was still favoring a certain few--and constantly moving shit and re-patching to use those few.

I came across this 32 ch board, with direct outs on each channel--and it was dirt cheap. As long the pres sounded as good as my preferred outboard pres, I knew I could simplify my life by having a single 32 channel input point that fit perfectly with my existing setup. (And yeah, I've kept of few of the old preamps just for some variety/color). So my goal was literally what this guy ended up with--don't make my recordings sound any worse, but simplify my life. I suppose he's bitter cause he paid a healthy 5 figures to do that--but I paid way less. And I got what I was hoping for--consistency and convenience, which combine to make my life a little easier when I'm tracking.

My point is this: the purpose of the board isn't to take my recordings to the next level (that's my job). The purpose of this board is to standardize and consolidate my 32 inputs--give me one thing to turn on, one thing to reach to--instead of 32 different pieces of assorted gear. (And yeah, the extra routing options are cool, too.)
 
I did think of you when I read this...i have bought nebula and a console library from AlexB, as far as i can tell from researching it this was the best console emulation you can get in the software world, and i used it in my last track...but its very hard for someone as inexperienced as myself to tell if it made any difference, its just too subtle

I guess it did as i want to keep using it,and i want to start routing any software synths i use alongside my hardware through outboard pres as well...though i could just be fooling myself...does it matter? I guess not, this is just a hobby, and the geeky stuff is interesting to guys anyway

Have you used your desk yet? By the sounds of things your goals slightly different than looking for a magic bullet
 
I did think of you when I read this...i have bought nebula and a console library from AlexB, as far as i can tell from researching it this was the best console emulation you can get in the software world, and i used it in my last track...but its very hard for someone as inexperienced as myself to tell if it made any difference, its just too subtle

I guess it did as i want to keep using it,and i want to start routing any software synths i use alongside my hardware through outboard pres as well...though i could just be fooling myself...does it matter? I guess not, this is just a hobby, and the geeky stuff is interesting to guys anyway

Have you used your desk yet? By the sounds of things your goals slightly different than looking for a magic bullet

I've only done a couple simple things with the new desk. But it was enough to tell me that I didn't waste the money. And I don't mind saying that I only paid $500 for it. That's about $16 per channel. LOL! As much money as I've wasted on buttons and lights over the years, $500 is nothing if it makes my musical life a little easier.

And while I'm keeping some outboard channels, I'm selling others (as you very well know), so for once in my life, I'm actually not going out of pocket for new gear!

Here's a couple little things I've done with it so far. I use a lot of sims for electrics and bass these days, so I'm more concerned about live, acoustic instruments--as these two tracks show (oh, and I know I've done flute VSTs in the past, but the second track here--the one with the flute, is a real flute with a real mic--just so you know!):



 
Thanks for posting this, Keith. It was certainly an entertaining read!

A couple of thoughts that came to mind: The first was the aforementioned Neve console from Sound City. If anyone on this board hasn't checked out the Dave Grohl film about Sound City, I highly recommend it. The star of the film, aside from all of the great musicians who are interviewed, was really the Neve 8078 and it's signature sound. During the film, they talk about the industry move toward digital in the 90's and how Sound City stayed firmly in the analog camp. Tom Petty had this great line in an interview on the first digital fader banks, which only had a single fader and some MIDI controllers; as only Tom Petty could say... "What the?? Where's all the f-ing knobs, maaannn? I need some $#@% to play with."

One could say, at least initially, that a console was a rite of passage for the clients. (Well, in Sound City's case, it was a little more, but as previously mentioned, we can't all afford a Neve 8078.)

The other thing that came to mind was the Avid side-by-side that they posted a year or two ago. It was meant to test the summing capabilities of Pro Tools (all in-the-box) against those of a large Neve console. They ran two identical mixes: one on the Neve and the other ITB, and the results were pretty darn close. The engineers involved said they could hear a difference on the Neve, but I sure couldn't tell which was which. I think you can still download the audio from Avid's site if you want to hear it for yourself.

What they don't talk about was the workflow of getting there, which has been well illustrated by some of you.

I mix in-the-box now, but if I didn't have a control surface with real faders and knobs, I'd go insane. Guess it's my Tom Petty complex...
 
I've only done a couple simple things with the new desk. But it was enough to tell me that I didn't waste the money. And I don't mind saying that I only paid $500 for it. That's about $16 per channel. LOL! As much money as I've wasted on buttons and lights over the years, $500 is nothing if it makes my musical life a little easier.

And while I'm keeping some outboard channels, I'm selling others (as you very well know), so for once in my life, I'm actually not going out of pocket for new gear!

Here's a couple little things I've done with it so far. I use a lot of sims for electrics and bass these days, so I'm more concerned about live, acoustic instruments--as these two tracks show (oh, and I know I've done flute VSTs in the past, but the second track here--the one with the flute, is a real flute with a real mic--just so you know!):




Yeah, like i said, i think your point in buying a board isnt really the same as the articles author...in fact if i had the room id prolly like to have a go with an analogue board myself

You can ear the flutes no vst for sure, does sound super clean....then the track went on to prelude 04...nice stuff Bob ;)
 
Thanks for posting this, Keith. It was certainly an entertaining read!

A couple of thoughts that came to mind: The first was the aforementioned Neve console from Sound City. If anyone on this board hasn't checked out the Dave Grohl film about Sound City, I highly recommend it. The star of the film, aside from all of the great musicians who are interviewed, was really the Neve 8078 and it's signature sound. During the film, they talk about the industry move toward digital in the 90's and how Sound City stayed firmly in the analog camp. Tom Petty had this great line in an interview on the first digital fader banks, which only had a single fader and some MIDI controllers; as only Tom Petty could say... "What the?? Where's all the f-ing knobs, maaannn? I need some $#@% to play with."

One could say, at least initially, that a console was a rite of passage for the clients. (Well, in Sound City's case, it was a little more, but as previously mentioned, we can't all afford a Neve 8078.)

The other thing that came to mind was the Avid side-by-side that they posted a year or two ago. It was meant to test the summing capabilities of Pro Tools (all in-the-box) against those of a large Neve console. They ran two identical mixes: one on the Neve and the other ITB, and the results were pretty darn close. The engineers involved said they could hear a difference on the Neve, but I sure couldn't tell which was which. I think you can still download the audio from Avid's site if you want to hear it for yourself.

What they don't talk about was the workflow of getting there, which has been well illustrated by some of you.

I mix in-the-box now, but if I didn't have a control surface with real faders and knobs, I'd go insane. Guess it's my Tom Petty complex...

Funny that, i only really play electronic stuff but i get bored of the mouse pretty quickly when mixing..ive been using two ipads running v control which are great, but i think im gonna spring for a mackie mcu pro with either 8 or 16 extra faders sometime soon...at east that way i can pretend


Maybe ill grow a moustache too


Mmmm


:)
 
Back
Top