Hammonds, Rhodes and Mellotrons?

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Sampled mellotrons will sound a lot nicer if you dump them to analog tape. My experience is that wow and flutter and even tape dropouts can be quite desirable. I run my Mellosamples through an old portable r2r in rather bad condition.

Tubes preamps help as well, but solid state guitar amps tends to make the sound even brighter (which in my case isnt desirable). I guess what happens can be described as "warming up the sound", and that some people might say that a tape simulator might help. (I wont)

The sound from the mello is unpredictable (one note doesnt sound the same twice). Therefore the randomness of a r2r or casette deck can the sound more "lively" and "real" in my opinion.
 
The best Mellotron I've heard anywhere would be this sample collection:

http://www.hollowsun.com/cds/newtron_page.html

Don't let the price fool you it's really very good stuff. They also have a library for the Yamaha CP70 which is my favorite of their offerings. This collection also includes a Rhodes set and a Wurli set as a bonus and these are both good too.

The dirty Hammond scream had alot to do with the AO-28 preamp.
For Hammond I never have found samples or emulations that I liked. It's the whole mechanical aspect I think that gets lost in translation. So my solution, since I can't afford to buy a nice old B3 was to hotrod a Hammond T524 spinet. I picked one up for $50 in good condition from a consignment shop. After giving the unit a lube job I followed the instructions here:

http://www.keyboardpartner.de/hammond/t-modifications.htm

End result is awesome. Sounds like an M series now. Real Hammond sound for $50 and some elbow grease.
 
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Somnium7 said:
The best Mellotron I've heard anywhere would be this sample collection:

http://www.hollowsun.com/cds/newtron_page.html

Don't let the price fool you it's really very good stuff. They also have a library for the Yamaha CP70 which is my favorite of their offerings. This collection also includes a Rhodes set and a Wurli set as a bonus and these are both good too.

The dirty Hammond scream had alot to do with the AO-28 preamp.
For Hammond I never have found samples or emulations that I liked. It's the whole mechanical aspect I think that gets lost in translation. So my solution, since I can't afford to buy a nice old B3 was to hotrod a Hammond T524 spinet. I picked one up for $50 in good condition from a consignment shop. After giving the unit a lube job I followed the instructions here:

http://www.keyboardpartner.de/hammond/t-modifications.htm

End result is awesome. Sounds like an M series now. Real Hammond sound for $50 and some elbow grease.
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Wow! You made the T Tube driven?! Thats pretty sweet.

I own a M100 myself, and it sounds much better with some tweaking. (Adjusting Pre-amp level and percussion cutoff). Do you have any recordings of your modified T? Id be very keen to hear it with tubes in.

As for Hammond sounds, I havent heard any software that impress. Everyone I know who boasts SW as B4 have never had more than 10 minutes alone with the real thing. I think Keith Emerson did a Sample CD called "danderous synths and organs". I you need gritty hammond SAMPLES, they arent that bad. If you need to play an organ, go get one. If you dont have the room, throw something out. Youll never regret. Its a dream to play. Hours pass and the leslie keeps twirling :D

A "cheap" way to have a real analog synth is the Roland SH-101. Altho this is a 80s synth it makes a decent job in producing 70s mono lead sounds. And YES! There is a great difference between a software synth and a analog one. Its like you can feel it working though your finger tips. AND if you run it trough a bluesbreaker and a leslie (and perhaps a tape echo?), the end of the world is nigh.
 
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Oh fun, this topic has come back. I'll have to make some demo recordings of the sounds I'm getting.

On the subject of the Hammond, does anyone know what was done to produce the extraordinary bass sound in "Killer" by Van der Graaf Generator? (3:54-4:56 and 7:47-finish). I think it's a Hammond with a stupendous amount of echo and phasing on it, but the underlying sound is a mystery to me.
While I've heard Hammonds do something a bit like it in other songs, it's a sound that the XM-1 seems wholly incapable of making. Whatever it was, VDGG didn't seem to be able to do it live.
 
jpmorris said:
Oh fun, this topic has come back. I'll have to make some demo recordings of the sounds I'm getting.

On the subject of the Hammond, does anyone know what was done to produce the extraordinary bass sound in "Killer" by Van der Graaf Generator? (3:54-4:56 and 7:47-finish). I think it's a Hammond with a stupendous amount of echo and phasing on it, but the underlying sound is a mystery to me.
While I've heard Hammonds do something a bit like it in other songs, it's a sound that the XM-1 seems wholly incapable of making. Whatever it was, VDGG didn't seem to be able to do it live.
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I believe its distorted (external amp/ stomp box?), and probably ran through a phaser (and a leslie on chorus?). Wild guessing here.... Supersister often uses a similar sound (without the phasing) and Ive always thought that they just ran the organ into a overdriven guitaramp and skipped the leslie. On "Killer" it sounds like the organ plays though a leslie(?).

In the days organs used to have all kind of mods in them. As I recall the organ VDGG use has some extra knobs on it. Ill double check this with the DVD later.

Love this album! Glad you brought it up, as it gives me yet another reason to hear it in its full glory.

*sinking in to the sea*
 
Rodrev said:
I believe its distorted (external amp/ stomp box?), and probably ran through a phaser (and a leslie on chorus?). Wild guessing here.... Supersister often uses a similar sound (without the phasing) and Ive always thought that they just ran the organ into a overdriven guitaramp and skipped the leslie. On "Killer" it sounds like the organ plays though a leslie(?).

In the days organs used to have all kind of mods in them. As I recall the organ VDGG use has some extra knobs on it. Ill double check this with the DVD later.

Love this album! Glad you brought it up, as it gives me yet another reason to hear it in its full glory.
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Distortion isn't something I've had much experience with, so that's worth a go. The VDDG sound has this peculiar grinding texture to it which eludes me.
Last year I actually recorded the passage from one of my songs and played it back at half-speed to try and replicate the sound - this proved a nightmare to fly in since it was done on tape, but for all that effort it didn't really come close.

Hugh Banton was well-known for modifying the Hammond, so I was afraid he'd done something bizarre like running the generator at half-speed or something...
 
I believe its possible to make the tonewheels slow down to half pitch. Not that I would do such a thing on mine. (Even the M100s are quite expensive here, and mine is in pretty sweet condition).

As for Supersister.. If you have or can track down their album "Pudding and Gisteren", listen to the track "Judy goes on Holiday". The heavy distorted leadline has always struck me as overdriven/distorted Hammond. After a fresh listen, Im not so shure.. Very cool sound, slices its way through the mix like a knife. Fantastic album as well :D

If you have a line out it should be easy to apply distortion. I dont have that, and I dont want to rewire my Line input, as I use it for.. You guessed it.. Synths and Guitar. (A very handy way to get sound into the leslie without the preamp combo thingie) The M100s built in amp and speakers also makes quite a nice tube guitar amp. Another reason to get one! (I cant believe that this is damaging for the organ when driven nicely.. But if anyone know that it is, please tell me.)
 
After another listen to "Judy goes on Holiday", I hear a synth portamento towards the ending. Wrong song, sorry. Its still a faboulous listen tho.
 
Rodrev said:
Wow! You made the T Tube driven?! Thats pretty sweet.

I own a M100 myself, and it sounds much better with some tweaking. (Adjusting Pre-amp level and percussion cutoff). Do you have any recordings of your modified T? Id be very keen to hear it with tubes in.
Click to expand...

I have no recordings of it yet. The guy with the T500 mod site no-longer sells his tube preamp kit. So, I am currently in the process of constructing this:

http://www.dogstar.dantimax.dk/tubestuf/mctube.htm

It's a simple solid design that's easy to mod. Mods I am adding are a tonestack and variable plate supply voltage with a range of 90 - 150 volts. I saw another web page about this distortion box and there were samples to listen to. On that page the guy wrote about the wide range of tones he got from it by varying the plate supply voltage. From his clips I found the changes impressive enough to make it worth the extra effort.

Until the tube driver is finished I am cheating - I built one of these:

http://www.runoffgroove.com/thunderchief.html

I modded this design so it will not block frequencies under 80hz like it was designed to. I also added a switch that knocks two volts off the battery voltage to get that starved tube sound. Overall this has to be one of the best solid state, tube distortions I've heard.

The T is in it's second phase of mods now. In addition to the tube driver I'm adding an effects loop and a variable speed drive motor for the vibrato scanner. On this organ the speed of the vibrato and the speed of the leslie on fast is so close they almost negate each other. The vibrato scanner is run from the same motor as the tone generator via a rubber belt. For the mod I'll be taking off the belt and putting on a new one that will run to the new variable speed motor.
The Rhythm III beatbox was removed from the organ and the panel for it's controls will be replaced by a new panel I am having machined for the preamp, FX loop and vibrato speed controls.
For phase 3 I'll be swapping in better speakers. Since the leslie is only a single rotor type it will make a big improvement if I replace it's speaker with a full range whizzer type unit. The result will be more highs in the sound giving a stronger leslie effect.
I'll post some pics of it later.

btw here is a device for transposing the Hammond tone generator:
http://webstore.speakeasyvintagemusic.com/shopdata/?main_url=0030_Hammond%3D99%2BParts%2Band%2BAccessories%2Fproduct_overview.shopscript
 
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I used to have a Nord Electro, but had to sell it when I picked up a Kurzweil K2600xs used. Let's just say I'm not missing the Nord anymore. I love the KB3 sounds, and after adding the vintage keys rom chip, I'm totally happy with the 2600. Actually, I ordered a CD rom SCSI drive off ebay with a bunch of sounds, and some of the vintage ep sounds are better than what's on the expansion ROM. Some very nice Clavinet sounds as well. If you look around you can find a used k2600 for around the same price as the electro. The only reason I'd prefer the electro is because it's so lightweight, but then again you could always get a k2600 rack and a controller keyboard.
 
As promised/threatened some time ago, here's some clips of the the instruments in question as I use them.

Here's a clip from one of my songs (actually a cover, but what the hey) it's demonstrating the Hammond XM1/Rotosphere combination for the organ, and later what I think is probably Mr. Tramp for electric piano.


This song has the traditional "3 violins" mellotron sound from the official sample CD. It also has a fairly dry version of the choir (3:03 onwards) and the MkII flute, but that only really becomes noticeable at about 3:22.


Now this one was the first test of my digital mellotron engine under full sequencer control. It has been fed through a Zoom RFX reverb for that classic "Selling England By The Pound" choir:

...the electric piano is probably Mr. Tramp again. The organ is the one from the Roland M-VS1. The XM1 kicks it so badly I can't believe I actually thought it sounded okay..
 
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