Guys, I need serious help.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Notebook.
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SouthSIDE Glen said:
I hardly ever even listen to my stereo anymore anyway.
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Yeah...it doesn't get as much play as it use it use to.
When I'm working on something non-audio in the studio (like cleaning connections)...I will occasionally put on a bunch of CDs and listen to music all day long....but it's rare.

The problem for most is that music now competes with the TV, the computer, the video games...and at best, it takes an ambient back seat while we multitask our lives away.... :(
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
I think half the reason vinyl grabs one's attention more is because one actually has to take a temporary timeout from life to actually set it up to play it; it forces one's attention out of the gate. It is an actual ceremony in a way that popping a CD in the player is not.

G.
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that makes a lot of sense. Probably the best explanation for this.
 
wirejoke2.webp
miroslav said:
What's your point...?

I already stated that I can hear a difference using heavier gauges.
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My point is you won't hear a difference unless you exceed 50'.
 
NYMorningstar said:
View attachment 64006My point is you won't hear a difference unless you exceed 50'.
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My point is that I heard a difference going from 18 to 12 AWG with only about a 10' length from the amp to the monitors. It was actually pretty easy to discern and not just my imagination.

As an example...
The maximum recommend lengths for 22 AWG speaker wire gauges for an 8 Ohm load is 12'.
For 12 AWG it's 120'.
That's the maximum limit...and it improves as the lenght gets shorter....for BOTH gauges...proportionally.

Now granted the differences between one step up/down in gauge may not be as dramatic...but there is definite, scientific proof that with each change in gauge, increase/decrease in length and difference in load...the resistance, inductance and capacitance of the wire changes proportionally.
Now...how much a person hears (or not) may be... well...personal. :)

I don't see then need to "choke" up on the wire gauge when it's just as easy to use a heavier gauge and have much less chance of the wire affecting the sound...than to push limits with thin wire.
Look...the price of copper speaker wire ain't all that much different from thin to heavy gauges...so the argument/belief that it's all some kind of "sales scam"...is pretty weak! :D
Mind you...we are not talking here about "Monster" cable...some special "type" or brand...etc...that claims to do wonders.
We are talking only about gauge of wire.

There are "small steps" we can easily/cheaply take to make small improvements...which adds up and helps counter some of the larger or more expensive steps we can't take. It's not all "audio voodoo"...(like the guys who buy wooden knobs for their Hi-Fi systems to "improve" the clarity :laughings:)...some of it IS based in science too.
 
Lt. Bob said:
wrong ..... I hear a difference and Glenn already stated that he and some friends heard a difference.
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Try reading his post again and then mine. I'm talking about going from 16 gauge and down which 50' of is only 0.2 ohms of wire resistance. He's talking about from 18 and down which I agree you can hear a difference. Your post also said 18 gauge and that you would probably hear a difference. I agree that you probably would and good thing because now I see you do hear a difference, amazing. Calm down tiger.
 
NYMorningstar said:
Try reading his post again and then mine. I'm talking about going from 16 gauge and down which 50' of is only 0.2 ohms of wire resistance. He's talking about from 18 and down which I agree you can hear a difference. Your post also said 18 gauge and that you would probably hear a difference. I agree that you probably would and good thing because now I see you do hear a difference, amazing. Calm down tiger.
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Hey...and that's what I specifically stated in my original post...18 down to 12 makes a difference. I don't recall you "agreeing" with me on that. :D
You simply tossed out the comment that 16 was good enough for under 50'...which was kinda dismissive and an attempt to inject doubt about the value/use of heavier gauges.
I actually agreed with you that 16 is NOT "too thin".

Thing is...WTF would I want to bother just going from 18 to 16 for an "imporvement"...??? ;) ...when going from 18 to 12 was pretty darn noticeable!
I think 16 is on the outer limits of anything I would even consider for speaker wire. 14 gauge is much more acceptable, but 12 AWG just removes any/all doubt about what the speaker wire may be doing to your sound.
YMMV....:)

We are all calm.......OOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHMMMMMMMM......... :cool:
 
Well guys, I just went out and bought 16 gauge speaker wire.
I hope I strip it correctly, lol.
 
Well, this thread didn't beliong in the Mixing Techniques forum, so I moved it to The Rack forum.

peace,
 
miroslav said:
You simply tossed out the comment that 16 was good enough for under 50'...which was kinda dismissive and an attempt to inject doubt about the value/use of heavier gauges.:
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16 is good enough and what now you can read minds? I mean really, should I be trying to guess your motives?:rolleyes:
miroslav said:
Thing is...WTF would I want to bother just going from 18 to 16 for an "imporvement"...??? ;) ...:
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Better question is why do I have 18 to begin with?:o
 
NYMorningstar said:
16 is good enough and what now you can read minds? I mean really, should I be trying to guess your motives?:rolleyes:
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Now you're just stirring and shuffling....and mixing. :D
You made a few posts...all intended to "debunk" the need for heavier gauge wires, so I don't need to read you mind...I can read you posts. ;)


Better question is why do I have 18 to begin with?:o
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I don't know why YOU had 18 to begin with...???....but as I said, a long time ago before I knew about speaker wire gauges...18 AWG was pretty simple to find. Heck, we use to use 18 AWG lamp/zip cord for speaker wires...so 18 AWG ended up between my amp and monitors.

And...if you think that by using 16 AWG you are somehow much smarter than the guys using 18 AWG....well, you go with that thought! Like with the OP...it's probably the last choice because it's still easier to work into the post holes than heavier gauges! :laughings:

Eh...all these thin gauges are for wimps, anyway!
Next time around I'm going to get some #3 electrical cable and just weld the ends to the speaker posts!!! :cool:
 
I know we are all just doing some friendly BB'ing...and that's fine. :)
No harm done.

There was an interesting set of speaker wires I once saw in another studio. They weren't just a large gauge set of single casing, multi-stranded wires...but were instead multi-casing, multi-stranded wires. Individually they were not of a heavy gauge, but there were a LOT of wires per connection, so there was a totaling effect.
Each single wire in the bunch was about the same gauge as one might find in a single conductor of a microphone cable, but there were probably at least a dozen or more per/each "cable".
They looked like ribbon cables, but the individual wires were not running flat/parallel to each other...but were braided in a rather loose fashion.

Apparently they provide an even greater surface area than a single casing, multi-strand wire could of the same equivalent "gauge". Since the electric signals travel along the surface or "skin" (if I remember correctly from my electronic tech classes) instead of "through" the center of a wire...the more surface or skin there is, the easier the electric signals move.
Most times electricity and wires are described as working similar to a pipe and water...and the bigger the pipe the more/easier water passes through it...but it's not quite the same way that electricity travels, instead, going along the wire rather than "through" it.

I'm trying to find a picture on the Internet of the speaker wires I remember seeing...it was in a studio up north, in NY...can't recall the name. Maybe it was one over in the Woodstock area...?
 
Notebook. said:
Well, the wires that I got on accident to connect the speakers to amp are 14 gauge.
And I read the manual for my speakers and it takes 12 to 14 gauge. So, I'm confused. And the ends of the wires look like 1\4 TS ends. So, it's seriously confusing.
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14AWG solid wire is about 1/16" diameter. Stranded should easily be less than 1/12" (at maximum packing diameter ~1/14"), so if yours is as fat as 1/4"TS, it ain't #14AWG.
 
And the ends of the wires look like 1\4 TS ends. So, it's seriously confusing.
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Those goofy pin things? Chop 'em off.
 
miroslav said:
I know we are all just doing some friendly BB'ing...and that's fine. :)
No harm done.

There was an interesting set of speaker wires I once saw in another studio. They weren't just a large gauge set of single casing, multi-stranded wires...but were instead multi-casing, multi-stranded wires. Individually they were not of a heavy gauge, but there were a LOT of wires per connection, so there was a totaling effect.
Each single wire in the bunch was about the same gauge as one might find in a single conductor of a microphone cable, but there were probably at least a dozen or more per/each "cable".
They looked like ribbon cables, but the individual wires were not running flat/parallel to each other...but were braided in a rather loose fashion.

Apparently they provide an even greater surface area than a single casing, multi-strand wire could of the same equivalent "gauge". Since the electric signals travel along the surface or "skin" (if I remember correctly from my electronic tech classes) instead of "through" the center of a wire...the more surface or skin there is, the easier the electric signals move.
Most times electricity and wires are described as working similar to a pipe and water...and the bigger the pipe the more/easier water passes through it...but it's not quite the same way that electricity travels, instead, going along the wire rather than "through" it.

I'm trying to find a picture on the Internet of the speaker wires I remember seeing...it was in a studio up north, in NY...can't recall the name. Maybe it was one over in the Woodstock area...?
Click to expand...

Sounds like Litz cable, to reduce high frequency losses. I doubt it has any perceptible benefit at audio frequencies. Audiophool stuff, IMHO.

Litz wire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
crazydoc said:
Sounds like Litz cable, to reduce high frequency losses. I doubt it has any perceptible benefit at audio frequencies. Audiophool stuff, IMHO.

Litz wire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Nope...that's not it. Like I said it looked more like braided ribbon cable.

The stuff I saw was at a pro/commercial studio full of top-shelf audio gear...not some home/project studio digs.
I'm not saying everyone at every pro studio is an electronics wizard...
...but you're not going to get away with tool much "audiophool" stuff in a pro/commercial environment for too long.... ;)

Anyway...I'm not extolling the virtues of braided multi-ire speaker cable or anything like that... :D ...I was simply relating what I once saw in a studio, that was not your typical kind of speaker cable.
 
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