guitar recording, your thoughts? sim or mic'd

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Nathan1984

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I am working on my bands demo, and I have hit a wall. I am extremely picky with my guitar tones, since I am a guitarist. I want the best sound I can get, I have alot of sims, like poulin, pod farm, tse x30 and such, with a ton of ir's. I also have a good tube head and 5150 cab, with a sm57, and a senneheiser e609 mic. So I am capable of doing either or. I have strictly been using sims and models, but I am just not satisfied by my results, they don't sound bad, just not quite up to the same standards that I have heard going around on youtube...jealous a bit. I was wondering, what you guys think, should I stick with the sims, cause I have heard really good results, or should I just spend alittle more time and mic up my cab? If you guys think you could help me get my desired results, help a guy out.
 
Why don't you mic of the cab and see for yourself? If you are as picky as you say you are your going to have to do a lot more with the sims than just picking a particular one, tweaking everything, spending a lot of time finding that particular sound. Same thing for the amp, don't expect instant results from sticking a mic in front of a cab or just having a factory setting on a certain sim. It could take hours of moving a mic, adjusting settings, before you get the sound that your after.
 
Your amp will let you use the exact same tone you get when you play, so that's what I always do. I HATE sims...
 
I'd suggest getting a radial DI and re amp box

check here RADIAL STUFF

Go through the DI to both computer and amp and record the direct from the DI

Then you can send the recorded direct through the reamp box back to your pedals/amp later

This gives you the ability to play live performance through your amp to get the real feel for it as you play and then have the benefit of later being able to play with the mic positioning and settings on the amp and pedals until you find the perfect sweet spot to record the amp the way you hear it in your head using the recorded direct DI performance

Taking the variability out of the performance is a huge benefit to be able to really get the set up right. There's nothing worse than sound checking it how you want it thinking you have it mic'd right and then finding you killed the performance of your life with bad mic position or gainstaging in the recording chain.

This is also a great education in mic positioning and what tiny variations in position can do to change the sound you record

Works for me and has really opened up my horizons on recording my amps
 
Nathan1984 said:
I was wondering, what you guys think, should I stick with the sims, cause I have heard really good results, or should I just spend a little more time and mic up my cab? If you guys think you could help me get my desired results, help a guy out.
Click to expand...

I don't get what you are asking....I mean, I know what you are asking but why are you asking it...just try it both ways until you find what works.

AFA as helping you get your desired results...until we hear what you have and some examples/ideas of what you really want...it's kinda hard to help you. :)

For the record, I'm more of a mic-the-amp kind of guy.
 
You have been offered an excellent solution. Take a direct signal and try it both ways. But- there is a third option, which, as near as I can tell, I am about the only person who uses. I start the same way as Bristol Posse, with a direct signal. Then I send it to whatever amp or amps are available and mic them up. Then I send a direct signal to a modeler, deactivate the cab model (live mode). I send the modeled signal to a clean power amp, the type that would normally be used for driving monitors. (I use a Carver PM125). Then the signal goes to a broad-spectrum speaker or speaker array, such as passive reference monitors, a wedge monitor, or even a PA column. In some cases, I actually send the line out from the modeler to a powered reference monitor. Then I mic up the monitor with a good mic. I usually use condensers for that, rather than the dynamics I stick on a cranked up cab.

Of course, this lengthens the signal chain, but with a series of steps that produce damned little noise. Compared to the noise generated by most guitar amps, a modeler into a reference monitor, then to a Neumann KM184, then to an Avalon AD2022 produces negligible noise. So what does this do for me? It moves air, creates some room reflection, and allows me to get the sound of an overdriven amp at a far lower volume, and doesn't mess with the amp model by adding a lot of color.

Your question has been asked a bizzillion times, and is always based on an incorrect assumption- that using a modeler necessarily means going direct. It isn't modeler vs. mic'ing an amp. Once you have an unprocessed signal, you can do lots of things with it. There isn't a blessed reason you can't use a modeler and then send the modeled signal to an amp and mic it up. As long as you use a wicked clean amp, a broad spectrum speaker, and a good flat mic, this system greatly improves the level of accuracy of the model. The modeler can copy the frequency signature of the amp a lot better than it can simulate moving air hitting a mic diaphragm, and the effect of the room. And- if it doesn't work put for you, you can still re-amp and mic it up, or send it to the modeler, engage the cab models and try to create a decent direct track.-Richie
 
Richard ..... I have the same type of set up in the shop! Been wanting to record this way with the sim too.
 
I've been using a senneheiser e6o4 drum mic on guitar amp setups and have gotten surprisingly good results; worth checking out. A combo of a 604 & 57 give diverse tone that produces really good (IMO) results so much so, this combo has become my go-to choice (for now anyhow). I also use a 421 which is pretty much a no brainer since that mic works on just about anything.
 
the sims you mention are pretty dated and have been superseded by better technology....

if you can mic a decent amp and have the facilities to record it at a decent volume then go for it, Im sure its more funnand more rewarding if you get the tone you want...but in truth, the technology is close enough that I doubt anyone could tell the difference, and may be more convenient...but pod farm and poulin are ancient...get better modeling


seems you can have the best of both worlds
 
Do both at the same time. You can hook up a DI box that plugs into the amp and direct to the interface/mixing desk. Mic the amp, then you have 2 signals from pretty much the same source. Only one is just the guitar to run through a sim and the other is already through the amp. Easy enough to compare side by side.
 
sorry for being dense but with the Radial JDI do you want an active or passive box?
 
Depends!

Passive boxes have the advantage of never needing to be powered but usually need a higher out put pickups feeding them. Bass guitars and accoustics usually have higher output, active pickups and keyborads have a powerful output and are fine into a passive DI, electric guitar can be hit and miss if you have active pickups on there it's usually fine. If you have lower output, non active p'ups and your trying to go DI and to an amp you may find you loose some top end or even end up loading down the pickups which won't hurt them, but can make the sound kind of thin and reedy, or it may be just fine.

If you don't want to be constantly changing batteries or play out live using a DI to split the signal and won't always have access to phantom power and so use a passive DI for guitar, you can just put a line drive/buffer pedal ahead of the DI and forget about it

If you are recording purely electric guitar with lower output p'ups (most all non active p'ups) in a studio where you will always have phantom power then an active box may be a better safer choice to keep your sound as true as possible


As always YMMV
 
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