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Robus
Well-known member
Run your guitar through a buffered tuner or pedal and then to a long cable under the door and to an amp in a different room. Run a long mic cable back to your control room
Run your guitar through a buffered tuner or pedal and then to a long cable under the door and to an amp in a different room. Run a long mic cable back to your control room
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Polymorphia
New member
There's a difference between being perfect to capture a guitar (being apt to do it without any malfunctions), and capturing the exact tone perfectly. Almost every studio uses a ribbon mic alongside a 57. It does its job, but it doesn't do the whole job.That's a load of crap. The 57 IS perfect for capturing guitar. It's tough, it can handle very high SPLs, and it's cardioid. Some might not like the character of a 57, and that's fine, but that doesn't mean a condenser will do it better. You don't have to like it, but there's a reason it's probably the most popular cab mic of all time. IMO if you're able to use a condenser on a cab, that might be part of your tone problem - you're not loud enough.
The louder I turn my amp (I've turned it up to 6), the worse the crackling gets (even completely clean it does this). It is mostly coming from my amp. The 58, however, seems to accentuate this. The condenser helps to make it sound like a guitar again, when placed right (I have it 3/4 feet away), but the crackle is still there. I will try cranking it further, but I honestly think that will make it worse.
Wish
Never Sarcastic....Honest
"Grainy" sound from the OP is why I suggested dialing back the overdrive, etc.
It is becoming apparent that there are other issues here.
It is becoming apparent that there are other issues here.
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RFR
Well-known member
From what you are saying, all roads lead to your source. Use a different amp and or guitar.
I find it odd that you are in a band and dont have others at your disposal.
What serious guitarist only has one guitar?
I find it odd that you are in a band and dont have others at your disposal.
What serious guitarist only has one guitar?
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Polymorphia
New member
It is odd. It's because while I have always been serious about writing for and playing guitar, I've only recently started to rehearse with a band to get that music out there and get the gear I need for it. I've played with another band for a while, and I write many of the guitar parts, even though I'm the bassist in that band. If your definition of "serious" is what I think it is, I am not a serious guitarist yet. For perspective, I'm 19, I'm cheap, my parents are cheap, I don't have a "real job," I spend too much money on CDs, and I've had to make bass gear the priority for a couple of years (and I don't even have a back up amp there either).
I do have my friends' amps at my disposal. Just tried my friend's Deluxe yesterday. Didn't have any better luck.
Fortunately, I tried cranking the Deville further as suggested, and I had an epiphany. Instead of trying to somehow mask or eliminate the amp's natural drive (the tubes are rather sensitive; there's no getting around that), I tried working with it to get a decent tone. I used two drives, one with the drive all the way down and the volume lower such as not to drive the overdrive after it too much, but with my guitar's volume all the way up to get it to react just a little. I had the drive very low on the second drive and used the tone controls to get a decent sound out of the amp drive. Moved the mic a bit, EQ'd it, and voila. It sounded fine. In this case, the lone 58 did work.
I think it's obvious at this point that I need some better gear. This is a cautionary tale for those who want to buy a Fuzz Factory and a mandolin before getting some decent, usable guitar gear.
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RFR
Well-known member
Well being a poor (or cheap) 19 year old bass player explains it. ;-)
As to my definition of serious guitar player, that entails having at least 2 guitars. You're on stage, and break a string at least you have a back up so the show can go on without delay.
Good! Sounds like you've made some progress!
Like i said earlier, it's a bunch of trial and error.
Good luck, you'll get there.
As to my definition of serious guitar player, that entails having at least 2 guitars. You're on stage, and break a string at least you have a back up so the show can go on without delay.
Good! Sounds like you've made some progress!
Like i said earlier, it's a bunch of trial and error.
Good luck, you'll get there.
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Polymorphia
New member
^Thanks, and thanks to the others who gave suggestions as well. Definitely helped me out a lot.
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Greg_L
Banned
But it can. The cliche is you should be able to get usable tone with a single 57. And as cliche as that is, it's also true. Nothing captures the exact tone perfectly. Every mic has it's own flavor, color, character, whatever you wanna call it. Why do studios use a ribbon, usually an R-121? Because it's "warm". That's it's character.
If your shit is that bad, it's hardly fair to blame the 57, which is why assuming that's the reason "everyone" uses condensers is nonsense. You might have a bad tube or a bad pot or something. No mic will suffice when your amp is making bad noises.
ido1957
9K Gold Member
My JCM900 high gain channel sounds like crap really. But, my clean channel (if you can call a Marshall clean) sounds great with the gain about halfway, combined with a Boss pedal or two. I need Greg's JVM
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Greg_L
Banned
My JCM900 high gain channel sounds like crap really. But, my clean channel (if you can call a Marshall clean) sounds great with the gain about halfway, combined with a Boss pedal or two. I need Greg's JVM
Ha I thought you had a JVM. Didn't you do some tracks with a 2-channel version recently?
ido1957
9K Gold Member
Mike has a JVM210 + 1936 cab. We record a lot on it now, as we do most of our work at his place, and my daughter is always sleeping or studying when I want to record. Did manage to get in 3 hours of recording time on my JCM900 last night though. Man my LPC is just getting more and more comfortable to play since the nut was fixed. Still fiddling with pedal board/tones but I've got few keepers already. Back was a little tired after three straight hours playing standing up without a break.
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Polymorphia
New member
But isn't the point to capture the warmth that the 57 doesn't capture? (legitimately a question; I'm not trying to make any point here). Anyway, you're right that it's not fair for me to complain about the 58.
I think my amp is fine, just not well suited to my guitar and vice versa. The crackling, I think, is simply the tubes being overdriven by my guitar's hot pickups. It doesn't match the tone of my guitar, so I changed it a bit with the tone controls on my overdrive. It's not a malfunctioning kind of crackle; the clean tone just sounds more overdriven than I want it to sound.
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Greg_L
Banned
A 57 could catch "warmth" though. They pair a 57 with a ribbon to catch the brightness with the 57 and the warmth with the ribbon. It doesn't have to be a ribbon though, and it doesn't have to be a 57. You could use two 57s, two ribbons, or just one of each. Or two completely different mics. The 57 is virtually foolproof, so it's very popular for a multitude of applications. Bright and warmth is more to do with the mic placement. You can put a 57 at the edge of the speaker and it will be as "warm" as summertime in hell. 57s are exceptionally good though for aggressive guitar tones because it's kind of hyped in the upper mids. Live or recorded, an aggressive track mic'd with a 57 will cut through the noise around it. If you're recording mellow jazz, a 57 could do it, but you might be better served with a "warmer" character mic, like a ribbon or different dynamic. Maybe even a stupid condenser if you're playing quietly. Blah.
The bigger issue here is trying to fix a bad amp sound with mics and placement. That's a foolish endeavor. If your gear sounds good, you can record it with damn near anything.
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Greg_L
Banned
Ah, that's Mike's JVM. Cool. Good amp, huh?
fireflyva
New member
I have an idea to consider. Recently I was attempting to record an acoustic guitar and automatically went to a small diaphragm condenser and placed it at neck level pointing in to the fret board offset of the sound hole. It just didn't sound right. So I moved it over a little and it still didn't sound right. I kept moving around and eventually tried a large diaphragm condenser moving it around. Still nothing sounded good. Then it dawned on me: if the guitar sounded good to my ears, which it did, then why was it not sounding good when I recorded it? Because of the mic placement. So I moved the mic up near my head/ear level and "bingo" I found the sound I was looking for. True, it had a little more room sound in it, but it was recording what I was hearing, and I liked what I was hearing. Maybe you need to approach your guitar recording the same way. Dumb it down. Use just one mic. Find out where it sounds good to you playing and put the mic there....just a thought.
ido1957
9K Gold Member
If I had the cash (which I will eventually) I will buy one. My 900 has kept me going for a long long time but I'd a new amp I don't have to fix as much. I just need the head but it's like 3 grand here with the exchange right now.
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Greg_L
Banned
How's your used market? As advanced as they are, I've never heard of a JVM breaking down. A used one would serve you well for a long time.
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Robus
Well-known member
Your 2x12 DeVille is a pretty awesome amp for gigging, if the Fender tone is what you are looking for.
The better lesson is that what works on stage may not be what is best in the home studio. Consider keeping your Fender for when you need headroom or loud and looking into small amps specifically for recording. We are living in a Golden Age of low watt tube amps right now. All the major companies are offering amps in the 1-20 watt range.
I have three amps that handle all my recording needs: An old 15 watt Trace Elliot Velocette, a 20 watt Fender DRRI, and a Hughes and Kettner Tubemeister 15 head. Between them, I can get any guitar tone I need at volume levels that make sense in a home studio. Stick a mic in front of that Velocette and you will think you are hearing a rampaging Vox AC30. Somewhere on my list for gear acquisition is a Fender Princeton 68 Reissue.
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Greg_L
Banned
See, I don't buy any of the currently trendy low watt sales pitch. A 1-20 watt tube amp can be loud enough to aggravate sensitive neighbors. 1 watt feeding a single Vintage 30 can pump out 100 db. So what exactly are "volume levels that make sense in a home recording studio"? And if you think a 5w amp sounds like a 100w amp, I think you're kidding yourself.
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Robus
Well-known member
Give the low watters a try in a home recording studio, if you haven't already. You might change your mind. I'm not saying they don't get loud, but man there is a difference. Even a 40 watt 1x12 can be difficult and painful to work with in a home studio. It's not just the sound pressure levels, but controlling ambiance and vibrations, and monitoring accurately with the monster roaring in the background. I've done that and had enough of it. I can set up my 15 watt 1x10 Trace Elliot cranked in another room, run long cables under the doors, and monitor through speakers in my control room. And we could converse in a normal tone of voice while I'm doing it.
Does a 5 watt amp sound like a 100 watt amp? Of course not, if you're listening to them live. Stick a mic in front and record each, then compare the recordings. Can you tell which is which? Are you sure about that?
Anyway, the OP was trying to use a 2x12. What's the point of that? I saw that you advocated using a single mic. He's going to put that mic in front of one of those speakers. The other speaker is just adding noise pollution to the studio environment.