Guitar recording and micing

W

WiscRcdr

New member
I'm sure this topics been hit plenty of times, but what the hell.

I've been working on recording some guitar tracks in the home studio and I'm not happy with the sound thats being recorded. The sound within the studio sounds exactly like I want, a certain amount of thickness, sustain, clarity, etc. But when I listen to the playback, it sounds thin and sickly. I've got a Yamaha digital recorder, and I've been using a Boss DR-880 for the drum/rythm tracks. Those tracks come out sounding exactly like they do in the studio coming out the studio pa. For the guitar I've experimented with direct micing the amp, I've tried running a direct line out from the amp to the digital recorder. The mic I used for direct micing isn't anything special, I think an audio technica, directed down from a floor mic stand aimed at the amp celestian speaker.

Thoughts on how to get a thicker sound?...or at least have it sound the same as it does live in the studio? I suppose I could always tweak the recorder eqs for more midrange and bass. I even thought of running through the DR-880 guitar inputs as an experiment as well.

Its sad because I finally found the "live sound" I wanted in the studio for the guitar, but I just can't seem to duplicate it on the recorder tracks.. argh...
 
How many in's do you have? Try multiple mic's in different positions, along with the DI, and blend them to get a thicker sound. Try the mic on each speaker in your cab, behind the cab, 3', 5', 10'. and spend a little money on a couple decent mic's, a sm57, senheiser 609, they're about 100 bucks each. I also use a large diafram mic 20' away.

I've also recorded at a buddies house, he built a isolation box for his cab, place a mic in there.
 
I agree with fuzz that blending can be good, but don't go there until you can get a good sound with just one mic. Adding mics to a sound that isn't worth a shit is gonna be a nightmare.
 
Greg L. has got it right. Mic position is probably the single most important element to getting good guitar sounds. For example: I was recording a small extension cab in another room with a SM57 placed fairly close to the edge of the cone 5" or so. It sounds good there for this cab and the tone I was looking for. I sit and listen as a friend plays getting an overall feel for the sound and it sounds good. I return to "control room" check a few things going withthe tracks and this takes a few minutes before I pull up the mike and it sounds ok. Something else came up and I was delayed in recording by 20 or so minutes. Hit record and it sounded like not so good. Turns out the mic stand had slipped and the mic had moved 2" towards the center of the cone. Lesson. Mic position matters. Second, Mic choice and position are your EQ... repeat mic choice and position are your eq. Don't reach for your channel strip etc until you have got it right and need only minimal EQ (1 or 2db ) for minor adjustments. (this excludes shelving low freq rumble as you may have to do a bit of that) Save EQ for mix if you can because if you got it right tracking all you will need in mix is to tweak a little sometimes to make it sit right. . Less is more. Third, often less distortion is better. Don't be scared to try lots of spots, even behind the cab. My 5e3 sounds great recorded from the rear. Good luck and have fun.
 
Lol. Yeah I recorded a rhythm track once that got muddier and muddier as the song played through. I was like, WTF? Turns out I didn't have the boom on the mic stand locked down tight, and it slowly slipped down across the speaker as I tracked the guitar. I pretty much got every sound possible on that one guitar track. :laughings:
 
I'll keep experimenting with the mics and mic placement. I've got some other mics I can try, and maybe even a Sm57. I know I have a sm58 and some other mics collected over the years. I haven't tried micing behind the cabinet yet. I can certainly try some of the ideas you guys have mentioned. I have plenty of inputs if necessary to add multiple layers, but Im trying to keep it as simple as possible and trying to get the tone recorded to sound as good as it does within the room when playing. If I can get it somewhat close, I can then tweak during mixing, etc. I can also experiment with different guitars as well, but it sure would be nice to have it sound recorded like it does in the room.

Its funny, I can lay down bass tracks directly from the amp via the line out, or from different positions from the mic in front of the amp and it sounds just fine, but the guitar.. its been lacking..

More experiments to follow...
 
What you hear in the room isn't what the mic hears right down next to the speaker. It's usually way different. Without going deaf, you need to get your head down there and see if what's coming right out of the speaker is a good sound. If not, change it. Once you get that up close sound good, then you need to find where the mic likes it. The center of the speaker is gonna be brightest and the sound gets darker the further out you go from the center. I personally like to put the mic somewhere near where the dustcap of the speaker connects with the cone. That junction is usually pretty bright and clear while still getting some meat from the speaker cone. It depends though. You gotta try and see. Little movements make big differences. Just an inch left or right or in or out can drastically alter things. Once you find that sweet spot, LEAVE IT THERE and try to record all your tracks in one session, or make sure the mic never moves. Tape the stand to the floor and mark the grill cloth so you know where it's supposed to be. Take pics. Just make sure that mic stays put.

Once you get a good up close sound, then you can add more mics or room mics for extra oomph.
 
THe old trick of passing pink noise or just turning up the amp LOUD (WITH NO INPUT!!!) and moving the mic around the cone/area while monitoring can be helpful for locating bright/dark spots. Remember no input if using the latter technique otherwise you could have hearing problems when your drunk gtr player grabs the gtr for a quick Voodoo Chile at full volume. Once you have done this and take a few notes, placed some tape on good spots you need to reference these locations. Lock down your mic stand (hehe) and record some takes of what you intend to record with real guitar input. Now you have a point of reference. One more thing already mentioned, take some notes. Also remember what sounds good in the room is not always best for what is to be used. With that said (as a guitar player) reproducing that awesome room sound (pants flappin, ears ringing) may be just what you must have. So keep on experimenting and don't be afraid to try new unorthodox stuff. One last thing if you record cab front and back of open back cab, flip phase on back mic. Also remember the 3 to one rule when using distance and ambient multiple mics.
 
How can advice be offered without a clue as to what you're hearing. Post a clip of your guitar tone.
 
If you have a crappy amp is it worth going through all the trouble? I keep trying to upgrade my shit as the years go by, but my budget for a new amp won't come until probably next year LOL. I have a few amps here and there that I can experiment with, but would it be worth doing? Especially because they will never produce a really great sound lol.
 
Things to consider

Miking a guitar amp, whether clean or drive guitar tones is tricky. One of the reasons why a bass played through that amp and miked well is due to the wave length of those sound waves, this is why those takes translates so well. that's probably why those take sits with your project so easily. The longer wave lengths are less reflective in short distances.

Mike distance, Mike angle, amp volume are your variables that can throw your guitar take out. A few things to consider, is the speaker close proximity to a hard floor? If so, those reflective standing waves are going to influence your results tremendously. One solution, raise the speaker off the floor or lay some carpet down or a pillow, this should reduce those refractive waves.

Another strategy to help, adjust the tone controls on your amp, mid range is finicky with some rigs.
Last but not least, the guitar speaker is the root of what your mike picks up.

Here, I use an old 6 inch speaker, guessing 40 years old in a small enclosure at low volume, it sounds thin compared to my hefty 12 inch speakers, but the results when played back is fantastic, worth a try, can't hurt.
 
OP said:
...Im trying to keep it as simple as possible and trying to get the tone recorded to sound as good as it does within the room when playing. ...
Click to expand...
Greg_L said:
What you hear in the room isn't what the mic hears right down next to the speaker. It's usually way different. Without going deaf, you need to get your head down there and see if what's coming right out of the speaker is a good sound. ...
Click to expand...

Not only that, take into account the mic'd and tracked sound is scaled down on playback and in the mix -a lot from what you're hearing/feeling in three and four dimensions standing there playing it in the room.
 
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