I have been doing some recording mainly using drum loops because of the lack of a live drummer. I've been finding that they're just not cutting it. What I'm wondering is how many of you guys have learned drums after being long time guitar players? Also relatively how easy was it? I know I won't be flying around a set doing solos anytime soon but just looking to get good enough to comp the song fairly well.
Guitar players learning drums
- Thread starter Brian_SG
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PhiloBeddoe
New member
I'm a longtime guitarist and drumming hack. I'd say it's easy to be mediocre and hard to be good. However, the penalty for not being good at drums can be even higher than guitar. If the drums are crap on a recording, you're done. With guitars, you can overdub forever until it's right or at least acceptable.
Also, getting good drum sounds is not easy. First you have to know how to tune drums and play them well, e.g. consistent attack and solid timing. Then you have to have a decent room and recording chain. Finally, you have to know how to mix the suckers which could be a whole book.
So I definitely wouldn't expect to just set up some mics and have instant gratification.
Also, getting good drum sounds is not easy. First you have to know how to tune drums and play them well, e.g. consistent attack and solid timing. Then you have to have a decent room and recording chain. Finally, you have to know how to mix the suckers which could be a whole book.
So I definitely wouldn't expect to just set up some mics and have instant gratification.
cnix
New member
I am in your shoes. I have been using loops and drum machines and just not satisified with my results. I decided to buy a cheap electronic drum set just to beat on and see if I could do a better job than the loops. It's has only been a few weeks but I am having fun learning the basics with a play along "How to" book / CD. Like any instrument, it is not easy. I choose electronic drums because they were cheap, quiet (don't want the neighborhood to hear how sorry I play drums) and less complicated to record, such as number of quality mics, pre's, room treatment etc.
I figure if I do get good, I can always upgrade to quality drums.
Good luck.
Charlie
I figure if I do get good, I can always upgrade to quality drums.
Good luck.
Charlie
Buck62
噛んでくれ
I broke a couple fingers several years ago and couldn't play guitar, so I switched to drums while they healed. It's not really hard if you're a good rhythm guitar player. But if you're one of those guys who can only play good leads and sucks at rhythm, fogettaboutit!
I'm a drummer who plays several instruments (including guitar) so perhaps my view is not what you want or need - but I'll share my opinion.
I think someone who is a decent musician can learn some basic drums skills - at least enough to lay down some of the basic grooves needed to support a song. As a general rule, drum parts played for recording tend to be more basic than live playing (simply enough to support the song). Now that is much different than becoming a "good drummer" - but it may be enough to track a basic drum part.
However, being able to play some 1/4, 1/8 or 1/16 notes (which normally is all that is needed for tracking) is only a part of the skills needed. If you use acoustic drums, you need to know how to tune drums and often how to actually pull tone out of a drum (how to hit the drums) - just as getting good guitar tones involves more than simply plucking a string. Naturally electronic drums can eliminate some of these issues (and as indicated can make the recording process easier than trying to mic a kit).
If you want to learn some basic drum skills - do the same thing that drummers have done for generations.....listen to some recordings and try to learn the basic beats (it's not as hard as we drummers would like you to think
). If you can tap out drum beats with you hands on a table top - you can probably do a fair job with sticks in your hands. Certainly there are plenty of training videos and books - but drummers learned by playing to records for many years before videos were avaiable.
You may find you enjoy it enough to try to improve your chops - and if not, you can always go back to loops, etc.
I think someone who is a decent musician can learn some basic drums skills - at least enough to lay down some of the basic grooves needed to support a song. As a general rule, drum parts played for recording tend to be more basic than live playing (simply enough to support the song). Now that is much different than becoming a "good drummer" - but it may be enough to track a basic drum part.
However, being able to play some 1/4, 1/8 or 1/16 notes (which normally is all that is needed for tracking) is only a part of the skills needed. If you use acoustic drums, you need to know how to tune drums and often how to actually pull tone out of a drum (how to hit the drums) - just as getting good guitar tones involves more than simply plucking a string. Naturally electronic drums can eliminate some of these issues (and as indicated can make the recording process easier than trying to mic a kit).
If you want to learn some basic drum skills - do the same thing that drummers have done for generations.....listen to some recordings and try to learn the basic beats (it's not as hard as we drummers would like you to think
). If you can tap out drum beats with you hands on a table top - you can probably do a fair job with sticks in your hands. Certainly there are plenty of training videos and books - but drummers learned by playing to records for many years before videos were avaiable.You may find you enjoy it enough to try to improve your chops - and if not, you can always go back to loops, etc.
cnix
New member
I got these.
http://cgi.ebay.com/OSP-DD502-DIGIT...hZ003QQcategoryZ64382QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem
All drummers are now laughing very loud, but for a beginner, they are just what I needed, and they sounded good on the web site. They also sound good in person, but I have no drum experience.
Thanks guys, I'm pretty confident in my ability with rhythm so I should be able to do something with drums. The only thing I'm kind of worried about is the sound I would get out of an electronic drum kit, if it would be "digital sounding" like most effect processors for guitars. An E-set would solve a lot of problems for a beginner like me though.
You can always use e-drums to lay down a basic MIDI performance and then use that to trigger any of the dozens of sampled drum sounds that are available (many of the samples sound real close to the sound of acoustic drums and in many cases certainly less sterile than the canned sounds that come in the entry level e-drums drum modules.
An option would be a table top multi pad percussion controller (Roland makes one and Hart use to) - the Roland unit lets you plug a kick pedal in - and these can sometimes be a little easier for a non-drummer to navigate.
I have a guitarist friend who has a whole e-kit (which he can play fair enough to keep basic time in a few different grooves) and he bought the Hart controller (6 pads) originally to add to the e-kit (for triggering extra percusion sounds) - he now ends up using the Hart controller and playing with his hands (not much different than slapping out a groove on the kitchen table) - and rarely plays the whole kit when tracking.
An option would be a table top multi pad percussion controller (Roland makes one and Hart use to) - the Roland unit lets you plug a kick pedal in - and these can sometimes be a little easier for a non-drummer to navigate.
I have a guitarist friend who has a whole e-kit (which he can play fair enough to keep basic time in a few different grooves) and he bought the Hart controller (6 pads) originally to add to the e-kit (for triggering extra percusion sounds) - he now ends up using the Hart controller and playing with his hands (not much different than slapping out a groove on the kitchen table) - and rarely plays the whole kit when tracking.
legionserial
New member
I use MIDI for my drums, but over the last few years I have been teaching myself the basic coordination of drumming.
I don't own a drumkit, I simply sit on the train tapping my hands and feet to the music to pass the time. I have defintelty improved, especially with the speed and timing of my feet. To the extent that recently I went over to a friends, who owns a drumkit, sat down at the drums, and started playing. That was the first time I had sat at a kit in 13 years.
Of course, I can't do any crazy drum rolls or anything like that for shit, as I'm sure you need to become accustomed to a kit for that, which I'm not. But I can hold a beat, just about manage a few paradiddles on a double kick, and I can play better than the drummer I was in a band with about 6 or 7 years ago, who had been playing the drums for about 7 years. But then he was one of those people that just either didn't have it, or was too arrogant to see a need for any self improvement. He was shit. To the point that I had to keep time as the guitarist.
Anyway, if you have a good sense of rhythm and some coordination, you won't have too much of a problem. My philosophy with any instrument is that they are easy to pick up, but hard to master.
I don't own a drumkit, I simply sit on the train tapping my hands and feet to the music to pass the time. I have defintelty improved, especially with the speed and timing of my feet. To the extent that recently I went over to a friends, who owns a drumkit, sat down at the drums, and started playing. That was the first time I had sat at a kit in 13 years.
Of course, I can't do any crazy drum rolls or anything like that for shit, as I'm sure you need to become accustomed to a kit for that, which I'm not. But I can hold a beat, just about manage a few paradiddles on a double kick, and I can play better than the drummer I was in a band with about 6 or 7 years ago, who had been playing the drums for about 7 years. But then he was one of those people that just either didn't have it, or was too arrogant to see a need for any self improvement. He was shit. To the point that I had to keep time as the guitarist.
Anyway, if you have a good sense of rhythm and some coordination, you won't have too much of a problem. My philosophy with any instrument is that they are easy to pick up, but hard to master.
thebigcheese
"Hi, I'm in Delaware."
I think it's probably easier to start on drums and then go somewhere else than the other way around because you get a good rhythm foundation. Having said that, picking up drums now would certainly help your guitar playing. Plenty of guitar players (my bandmate included) don't have a good rhythm base and make life annoying for you in recording...
There is a LOT of coordination work involved in drumming, though, so be prepared to start with the boring basics. If you want to be halfway decent at it, sitting down and banging away isn't really the way to get there. You'll want to find rudiments and learn rolls and coordination exercises and what not.
There is a LOT of coordination work involved in drumming, though, so be prepared to start with the boring basics. If you want to be halfway decent at it, sitting down and banging away isn't really the way to get there. You'll want to find rudiments and learn rolls and coordination exercises and what not.
cephus
Slow Children Playing
It is really hard to get real drums to sound decent. I think that is a huge part of being a good drummer.
Alot of times I record a drum track, and then have to go back and enahance it with sampled snare and bass drum sounds. The hihat sounds better when i play it live. Espcially for a good rhythm guitar player.
The best results I have gotten are with the hybrid approach of playing certain parts with acoustic drums and then certain parts electronically.
Drum loops totally suck.
Alot of times I record a drum track, and then have to go back and enahance it with sampled snare and bass drum sounds. The hihat sounds better when i play it live. Espcially for a good rhythm guitar player.
The best results I have gotten are with the hybrid approach of playing certain parts with acoustic drums and then certain parts electronically.
Drum loops totally suck.
Thanks for all the advice guys. I know I'm definetly going to get a set. Whether it's acoustic or electric is still up in the air. The real thing I'm worried about is getting a digital sound from an electronic set. But if I were to get an electronic it would take care of a lot of things I would have to worry about with an acoustic set (tuning, micing, ...)
cephus
Slow Children Playing
for a non-drummer, I don't really think there's anything wrong with electronic kits. Except for acoustic hihat and snare with the rest being electonic. I have a yamaha midi converter and a remo practice pad set that I am going to make a hybrid kit out of. Back in the late 80s, the drummer for the band I was in used a bass drum pedal that had the beater in upside down and stuck this pad with a piezo mounted in it. It was just a modified chain drive pedal - home made. It was mounted on a bigger foot. But it seems like I don't see that kind of mechanism on electronic kits. I swear he could practically play a roll on the thing. I can't imagine a pedal that strikes a trigger pad would be any more responsive.