guitar level problems please help

  • Thread starter Thread starter gamba
  • Start date Start date
G

gamba

Member
hi everyone, i'm just started to get into audio recording in logic using logics complete rigs and i also have guitar rig 4. i first create an audio track then say i choose to use logic's complete rig preset called neu metal. i am using a motu 828mk3 firewire hybrid as my interface. right off the bat the signal is too hot. i was told by some people to shoot for -12. on my mic instrument input i have the trim all the way down and the signal is still no where near -12. so i open up the amp designer plug in on the channel strip and lower the output. the reason i do this is because i was told that to get your full pick up sound on your guitar you always want the volume on the guitar all the way up so i chose to lower the output on the amp plug in. i finally get my -12 level and hers where my problem starts. once i arm the track to record ( click the r button with the in put monitoring button lit through this whole process) my -12 level goes away and the level jumps up. can some one please help me with this because first i would like to start recording more guitar driven music and second i am on the lesson in the apple pro training logic 9 book where it explains about recording audio and this problem i am having is not only confusing me but also holding me up on progressing any farther in the logic pro training book. my interface is a motu firewire hybrid and the trim knob on each of the two mic/instrument inputs start (meaning as low as i can go) at +0 all the way up to +53 in 1 db increments. can anybody please help me with this problem?
 
On the Motu....does it automatically sense Mic VS Intstrument, or do you have to manually choose on the panel?

If something set for Mic level...but you're plugging/playing instrument level...it will be too hot.
 
there is no switch or any thing to choose from on the 828mk3 hybrid 828mk3-large-front.webp
 
I beleive that on that unit, the two Trim pots can be pushed in to get a 20dB pad since they are preamps. When stick an instrument level signal into them, you would want to pad them.
 
the manual says " the mic input (xlr jack) is equipped with a -20 db pad so "hot" signals are best connected by an xlr cable so that you can use the pad. since the pad is not available on the trs jack, the hot signals connected via the trs jack will probably over drive the input." some one on another forum told me that you never want to use a pad on a guitar. also i got in touch with motu earlier and there solution was to lower the gutars volume to get recording level.
 
The front inputs on that unit are mic-XLR, or instrument jack so stick to the jack input on the front.
Hmm, unless you're using an active instrument your signal shouldn't be too hot.

You know what; To test things out, you could just close your daw and do the following.

Open cuemix,
plug your guitar into instr 1,
turn the gain down on the instrument input
Turn the cuemix fader up
Play some and see what kind of level you're getting.
Caution: This'll make the guitar play straight through the speakers, so watch your monitor level. ;)

That'll tell you if you have a problem before your daw or not.
 
gamba said:
... i got in touch with motu earlier and there solution was to lower the gutars volume to get recording level.
Click to expand...

I find that rather dumb on their part, as you lose a lot of your sound when you lower the guitar volume too much....but what do I know. :)

Not sure then what is the problem with the signal level....
 
i agree. i tried the cue mix experiment and it still clipped. when you mentioned about an active instrument steenamaroo, i don't think these pickups are active. i even tried another guitar and the same clipping happened. i don't know what to do any more. it's like i paid 7 hundred bucks so could never plug a guitar in my interface and use amp sim software. so upset..... so frustrated.
 
That's so strange.
I have a motu 828 mk2. I know it's a generation earlier, but it's the same shit in a different bucket more or less.
I'll try it out tomorrow and see how it fares.
It's the same as yours in that there's no toggle switch or anything.


I've used it in the past without issue, but my memory sucks so I'll check it for you.

Don't quote me, but I'm pretty sure active pups require a power supply, so there'd be a battery somewhere if that was the case.


Now, one thing that's just come to mind is, each analog input has settings for -10/+4, and an optional boost button.
Google image tells a different story so maybe it's different for each OS or whatever.
I see a 'focus' option per input that I don't actually have.

Either way, take a look at these in cuemix and see what's on and what's not for your first two inputs.
Cuemix will change the settings stored in your hardware. These settings affect your inputs even when cuemix is shut.
 
Thank you so much for your time and help steenamaroo. When it comes to the cue mix I have never used it and i find it so confusing I have been reading the manual for two days and I'm still completely lost. I'm not a noob to music nor recording but I am a noob to engineering. All those years I just took the roll as the drummer, should of paid attention to the behind the scenes stuff. Thank you again.
 
I'm not gonna lie to you. I haven't got around to checking this.
Everything I own broke...............

Back soon. ;)
 
wow man i'm sorry to here that. on a positive note i checked out your CCR cover of put a light in the window, one of my favorite ccr songs. i really dug it . i especially loved the fact that it was raw sounding. to me it seemed to give it more emotion in the recording and if you can effect someones feeling with sound ...... man i think thats what its all about. can i just ask you one question? do i have to be using this cue mix fx software. cause i really don't understand it at all. sorry again about your gear. it's amazing how much money it takes just to be creative.
 
Hey gamba! Thanks man, that's really nice of you to say.
I recorded that one as a quick live jobby just to hear how it sounded, cos I wanted to sing it for a few friends that night.

Absolutely love that song!!!!

You don't have to use cuemix.
I only suggested looking at it because it's a much easier way to see what way your hardware is set.
To my knowledge, cuemix is a 'remote control'. Anything you can do in it, you can do with all those annoying little knobs and buttons on the 828.

Brb, i'm gona run outside with a guitar here.
 
Back...
Here's a video. Sorry about the crappy quality. I made it too small.

4 tests.
Full gain light strum
full gain hard slap

minimum gain light strum
minimum gain hard slap

That's with a LP studio + gibson pickups.

As you can see, I really have to do my best to make it clip.
 
sorry steenamaroo iwas busy taking care of some stuff in the home. also i tried changing my first set of guitar strings on a floyd rose tremelo. needless to say i changed the broken string then change a non broken string only to break it. if it wasn't for bad luck i would have none at all. when you mentioned lp studio did you mean logic pro? i was wondering if my inputs could be busted. i think i'll call motu again tomorrow. the one thing i like is that they are based in cambridge,MA. usa. and i live about a half hour from there so if i had to bring my unit there i could. before i bought the 828mk3 i was thinking of getting a focusrite saphire pro 40. with my roland v drums i needed at least 8 line ins. in your opinion do you think i should of bought the saphire pro 40? i'll post again tomorrow. take care stenamroo.
 
Hey.
No, lp studio was the guitar. I tested with a les paul studio + gibson pickups.

Do my levels look anything like yours?
I kept cuemix open just because it's a universal reference point. Yours should look the same as mine.

I know you don't want to use cuemix, but I keep bringing it up because it's a meter at the start of the chain.
No effects or Daws will change it. It tells you then input level right at the converters.

Your original post sounds like maybe you're reading a meter that comes after plugins?

To find out if you have a problem or not, replicate my test.
Plug in the guitar,
turn the channel gain down (on the front of the MOTU),
close logic,
open cuemix,
turn the fader up for mic/instrument one
and play.

Just be careful to keep your monitors down because the guitar will play through them while cuemix faders are up.


If you turn the guitar up, the channel gain down, and cuemix is still showing slammed levels, then you may have a problem.

If the meters look like mine, then you just need to look at the gain staging in your daw or amp modeller.
Turn down input gain and master output on the amp sim until things look normal.
 
yeah steen, my levels are alot hotter than yours.how did you make that movie? id'e like to do the same so i could show you what is going on. also i tested the signal in logic with all the plug ins bypassed and it still clipped.
 
and you definitely have the gain for that mic/inst channel turned right down?

Open quicktime and go to file > new screen recording.
The saved files can be pretty big, but if you go to save as > then select iphone under format, it'll be tiny (and crap :p)
 
what if i saved the file upload here some way then delete the file from my sytem. and yes my trim was all the way at +0.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top