Guitar Cables

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sorry to be the voice against the flood, but Monster is the way to go.

after playing for many, many, many years and using other cables, monster is still the best out there.

and YES, they do help your tone. they are noise-cancelling (to a point...not totally). they are durable. they are also backed by a lifetime, no-questions-asked-replacement garuntee (which ive done a few times...just go to a guitar center or wherever sells em with your broke cable and tell the sales guy you need a replacement. he'll take that one and give you a new one off the floor or rack or whatever...no problems.). also, with monster, because of the garuntee, you only have to buy as many cables as you need number-wise. if one of them breaks, youre not paying for a new cable -- its free. that one-time payout for the 12" monster 100 cable for $20 is definately worth it, considering you never have to pay to replace it. and on top of that, they sound better. ive tested them myself, first by using a livewire cable of the same length, then switching to the monster. there was a noticable and positive change in tone.

monster is definately worth it.
 
sorry to be the voice against the flood, but Monster is the way to go.

after playing for many, many, many years and using other cables, monster is still the best out there.

[...]

monster is definately worth it.

Not for me it's not. I've got a raft of cables of all different makes and they all sound the same. I take care of them and they don't break; I've got a couple that are over 25 years old.

And Monster's practice of suing anyone who uses the word "monster" in a commercial venture of any kind is enough reason for me to never spend a dime of my money on any of their products. Google "monster" and "litigation" and see what you get.

If you hear a difference, then it's real to you. I don't.
 
sorry to be the voice against the flood, but Monster is the way to go.

after playing for many, many, many years and using other cables, monster is still the best out there.

and YES, they do help your tone. they are noise-cancelling (to a point...not totally). they are durable. they are also backed by a lifetime, no-questions-asked-replacement garuntee (which ive done a few times...just go to a guitar center or wherever sells em with your broke cable and tell the sales guy you need a replacement. he'll take that one and give you a new one off the floor or rack or whatever...no problems.). also, with monster, because of the garuntee, you only have to buy as many cables as you need number-wise. if one of them breaks, youre not paying for a new cable -- its free. that one-time payout for the 12" monster 100 cable for $20 is definately worth it, considering you never have to pay to replace it. and on top of that, they sound better. ive tested them myself, first by using a livewire cable of the same length, then switching to the monster. there was a noticable and positive change in tone.

monster is definately worth it.

Total and absolute unqualified rubbish. You either have an interest in selling expensive cables or your a total idiot. Go away.
 
So, I bought some solderless cables a while back. They are "Core X2" I think. Anyway, I made 4 or 5 cables out of the kit. They work great. On the package was stated the cable was 99.9% oxygen free. Anyone know what that means or why I should care? The cables are quite good, though. I've never had a problem with any of the 5 in 3 years. There is NO way I'm paying $50 for one cable. I have payed half price for all the monsters I own, though. I've had a solder break on 1 out of 5 of them within 6 months. Another good cable I have is a "Planet Waves" with the mute switch built into the jack.
 
I've used all kinds of different brands and never noticed a change in tone. Some have been noisier, due to inadequate shielding. One brand I've had good luck with that always seems to be cheap is Rapco. I used to get these at a small store near where I lived. They had good sturdy cable and switchcraft plugs.

The other day I was in Walmart and low and behold......Rapco guitar cables. I didn't have time to check them out but I will. If they're the same quality as the cables I used to buy, I would have no problem scooping a couple into the cart. Of course you know they'll be dirt cheap. Wrap your cables in about a 12" circle and use velcro ties to store them and they will last a long time.
 
Total and absolute unqualified rubbish. You either have an interest in selling expensive cables or your a total idiot. Go away.



Now now, while it is true that he can't actually hear a difference, we don't need to be rude. It's just his brains way of convincing him he hasn't been had by his "friends" at the Banjo Mart.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Now now, while it is true that he can't actually hear a difference, we don't need to be rude. It's just his brains way of convincing him he hasn't been had by his "friends" at the Banjo Mart.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
I suppose your right. It's time for a re-write of that old fairy tale "The Emperors New Cloths". My version would have some great guitar hero being duped into using their cables and everyone too scared or in awe to actually say they don't make a damns worth of difference..that is until.;)
 
sorry to be the voice against the flood, but Monster is the way to go.

after playing for many, many, many years and using other cables, monster is still the best out there.

and YES, they do help your tone. they are noise-cancelling (to a point...not totally). they are durable. they are also backed by a lifetime, no-questions-asked-replacement garuntee (which ive done a few times...just go to a guitar center or wherever sells em with your broke cable and tell the sales guy you need a replacement. he'll take that one and give you a new one off the floor or rack or whatever...no problems.). also, with monster, because of the garuntee, you only have to buy as many cables as you need number-wise. if one of them breaks, youre not paying for a new cable -- its free. that one-time payout for the 12" monster 100 cable for $20 is definately worth it, considering you never have to pay to replace it. and on top of that, they sound better. ive tested them myself, first by using a livewire cable of the same length, then switching to the monster. there was a noticable and positive change in tone.

monster is definately worth it.

What you are saying seems completely contradictory to all the other evidence presented.

And $20 for a 12" cable. Is that right? If so... Fuck. That. I've been using the same damn cables for years. They break, I fix them. Even with a lifetime guarantee it's more hassle than it's worth to me to do anything but fix them myself. Seriously, soldering a jack is hardly rocket surgery. I can only pride myself in being a total fuckup when it comes to electronics (proven by passing a GSCE in electronics with a reasonably good grade for the mere reason that my write-up explained quite well why my projects did not give the expected results)...but a soldering a jack? I'm pretty sure my dad taught me to do that before I could walk.
 
Wrap your cables in about a 12" circle and use velcro ties to store them and they will last a long time.

I'm too cheap to buy velcro ties.:D I buy those elastic ties with the little ball on each end of the loop that girls use to put their hair in a pony tail. A whole bag of 'em costs about $2. Been using these forever & they work great.

You're right about wrapping your cables in about a 12" circle. Just need to make sure you do this by looping the cable and not wrapping it tightly around something. The old "around the hand, around the elbow" extension cord trick will destroy a cable faster than anything else!
 
So, does anyone know why "Core X2" would claim their cables are 99.9% oxygen free? I'm guessing it would keep the copper from oxidizing, like the cable on my home stereo speaker jacks. Also, what do all the forum authorities think of solderless connections?:D
 
I've been a loyal fan of Rapco cables since 1985 when i bought my first one (bought 2 18 footers, still use one of them.) Other good ones I've used right off the rack are Whirlwind and Soundteck cables. I've only tried one Monster cable (a friend bought it and insisted that I try it) and wasn't impressed by it, couldn't tell a bit of difference in the sound. Like I said, I've been using the same Rapco cable for over 20 years and it still sounds the same as the first time I used it, can anyone make that claim about a Monster cable?
 
So, does anyone know why "Core X2" would claim their cables are 99.9% oxygen free? I'm guessing it would keep the copper from oxidizing, like the cable on my home stereo speaker jacks. Also, what do all the forum authorities think of solderless connections?:D

I really haven't got the patience to write up a description of the physics involved in all this. Enough to say that if you can hear the difference between two different guitar cables you are not a human but more likely a bat or similar. The only frequencies at which these things even remotely become an issue is far and above the human audible range. Even then the effects are minute. When you hear people claiming such things and using tech jargon like resonance and oxygen free copper etc. ask them to do a blind test themselves and see how quickly they shut up.

Sadly all to often it's the shopper not the copper that is effected by a lack of oxygen!
 
My last words on the cable topic. A quote from H.L. Menkin I believe.

"No one has ever gone broke under estimating the intelligence of the American public"

and of course P.T. Barnum "There's a sucker born every minute."
 
I really haven't got the patience to write up a description of the physics involved in all this. Enough to say that if you can hear the difference between two different guitar cables you are not a human but more likely a bat or similar. The only frequencies at which these things even remotely become an issue is far and above the human audible range. Even then the effects are minute. When you hear people claiming such things and using tech jargon like resonance and oxygen free copper etc. ask them to do a blind test themselves and see how quickly they shut up.

Sadly all to often it's the shopper not the copper that is effected by a lack of oxygen!


Let me preface this by saying I'm in no way advocating expensive cables. Your post just brought up an interesting point, regarding the "range of human hearing thing."

While I'm not claiming this is true, proven, or anything like that, there is evidence to suggest that we (humans) still can detect a difference with sounds even when they're above 20khz ... indeed up to 45 and 50khz. I've read a few studies, but I'm too lazy and don't have the time to find the link right now.

Anyway, what does this mean as it relates to $15 cables vs. $115 cables? Probably not much. (IIRC, this study was an analog vs. digital thing, touting the virtues of analog.) It's just that I'm certainly open to the possibility that there's more to it than simple hz limits of human hearing. With everything we're learning about physics and biology every day, it seems the only constant thing we know is how little we really do know.

Think about a simple example. I can't conciously hear all the notes in the overtone series that are present when I play the open A string. (Granted, depending on where you pick, what kind of tone you have, etc., you can hear some of them, but not all of them in the upper reaches.) But they all are there, and they are affecting me greatly.

For that matter, most of us can't really even conciously hear 18khz. Those human hearing limits were set a good while ago as well, and I'm wondering with what technology they were established.

I'm guessing they took a bunch of people, gave them hearing tests, and determined what our "audible range" was.

Well, if they used that same type of test with reference to overtones, how many notes do you think people would say they heard if you piped a guitar's open A string through their headphones?
 
I bought into the hype when all this first began (the sales-oriented hype of monster superiority), and I've come to the conclusion (arrived at through expensive trial and error) that a good cable is the one that works every time.
 
Perhaps a good way to approach this question is "Does a subtle design change yield enough of an improvement to warrant my spending an extra hundred bucks on a ten foot cable?"

The answer is almost always going to be "Hell No!"

Without dabbling in the math of it all, I've learned of a few basic concepts that seem to be in force when comparing el cheapo cables with high quality, pro grade gear. Forget the uber high audiophile stuff.

1. Thicker conductors tend to be tougher and transmit with fewer problems. They may have a lower resistance. There is an interesting concept called "skin effect" in which electrical current tends to travel along the skin, or outside surface, of a conductor. A thicker conductor has a greater surface area, or "skin" than a thinner, higher gauge conductor and the effects of resistance tend to be minimized to some extent. So good heavy patch cables and guitar cables are better for a number of reasons than lightweight stuff.

2. Does skin effect / low oxygen / hand built cable really make that much of a difference? Practically speaking, no. Once you are beyond the basics: good construction, high quality materials, heavy duty cable - these other things might or might not be measurable, but they sure won't make much of a difference in a short cable. While they might be arguable in affecting the signal over fifty or a hundred feet, most interconnects, patch cables and so forth are shorter than three feet. A guitar cable is usually under fifteen feet in length. With longer lengths, any subtle distinctions between cables will be overtaken by issues such as RF interference. So a far bigger issue will be cable balancing and shielding from RF interference. Because guitar cables are usually not balanced, it makes no difference whether a more subtle variation is in play.

3. Bottom line: These are interesting theories and good brain puzzlers, but if you pay more than thirty bucks for a guitar cable, you're buying some well packaged ego.
 
I've been finding some old cables that went bad, seems its usually the end piece, jack, aka plug, alias 1/4".....

the wire is usually not the problem, its the jack.

so a good solid soldered end-connector/1/4 jack/plug is the key....

unfortunately I don't have any brand names for BEST made. probably a great DIY project and skill to acquire if your into this long term.

Solder gun, solder and end-plugs.
 
Over the long term, DIY usually yields the best cables. You learn how, you invest your time in it, and you tend to do a better job than a fast production line.
 
I really haven't got the patience to write up a description of the physics involved in all this. Enough to say that if you can hear the difference between two different guitar cables you are not a human but more likely a bat or similar. The only frequencies at which these things even remotely become an issue is far and above the human audible range. Even then the effects are minute. When you hear people claiming such things and using tech jargon like resonance and oxygen free copper etc. ask them to do a blind test themselves and see how quickly they shut up.

Sadly all to often it's the shopper not the copper that is effected by a lack of oxygen!

Alright, buddy. You didn't have to waste your time with this response, but since you couldn't resist indulging yourself with your rude comment, I take personally, I must now attack your character and intelligence! While you could have just confirmed my guess as to why an oxygen free cable would be a quality to be desired in an instrument cable, or possibly extracted a bit of your expert knowledge from physics, you just attacked my intelligence. So while your listening to cables with your bat ears, through your Epiphone SG and Crate stack PAL, I'm judging my cable on durability. This little bit of sales "jargon" did not affect my purchase, but since we are talking about the characteristics of a good instrument cable, I feel this is pertinent information to discuss. I have used $5 cables where the tip of the jack breaks off into the input jack, get stepped on night after night and eventually just break, solder joints are broken and not noticed until MINUTES BEFORE SHOWTIME OR DURING A SHOW. While I agree $50 is a lot of money to pay for a cable, there are characteristics that make a man like me want a durable cable, whether it have gold jacks, oxygen free cable, whatever. Good quality cables mean alot to me. I have piles of $5 JUNK cables in my garage that have FAILED! I like to make sure my guitar tone is getting to my ears without a $5 cable hindering the performance. Thanks for wasting my time, Physics Master.
 
Let me preface this by saying I'm in no way advocating expensive cables. Your post just brought up an interesting point, regarding the "range of human hearing thing."

While I'm not claiming this is true, proven, or anything like that, there is evidence to suggest that we (humans) still can detect a difference with sounds even when they're above 20khz ... indeed up to 45 and 50khz. I've read a few studies, but I'm too lazy and don't have the time to find the link right now.

Anyway, what does this mean as it relates to $15 cables vs. $115 cables? Probably not much. (IIRC, this study was an analog vs. digital thing, touting the virtues of analog.) It's just that I'm certainly open to the possibility that there's more to it than simple hz limits of human hearing. With everything we're learning about physics and biology every day, it seems the only constant thing we know is how little we really do know.

Think about a simple example. I can't conciously hear all the notes in the overtone series that are present when I play the open A string. (Granted, depending on where you pick, what kind of tone you have, etc., you can hear some of them, but not all of them in the upper reaches.) But they all are there, and they are affecting me greatly.

For that matter, most of us can't really even conciously hear 18khz. Those human hearing limits were set a good while ago as well, and I'm wondering with what technology they were established.

I'm guessing they took a bunch of people, gave them hearing tests, and determined what our "audible range" was.

Well, if they used that same type of test with reference to overtones, how many notes do you think people would say they heard if you piped a guitar's open A string through their headphones?

With an academic background in musical acoustic research I can say quite confidently that you are mistaken. First the range of human hearing is taken to be as it is as a result of very real and accurate testing. All the existing studies that are considered creditable qualify certain things. That the range as defined is not absolute. Variations occur amongst individuals and a quite definite degradation in our capacity to detect sounds with increasing age, illness and environmental living conditions also play a part.
I'm guessing they took a bunch of people, gave them hearing tests, and determined what our "audible range" was.
The accepted range has been studied using both simple blind testing and with complicated neurological equipment. The results are remarkably similar. There is a strong body of scientific evidence that supports the psycho-acoustic phenomena that we will often claim to hear what we want to hear. Those artifacts that we claim to hear disappear when the tests are done blindfold, so we might as well conclude that our eyesight also effects our ability to process sound waves!!

One thing here about what we do and do not know about the physics of sound. No matter what discoveries may be made in the future, they will not suddenly extend our capacity to hear above or below certain frequencies.

The frequency range in which we can observe quantifiable changes in the properties of electrical signals passed through conductors that are relevant to sound waves are way above the spectrum that any human can detect. Couple that with the fact that if you did the same tests on the electrical equipment that converts the electrical signal into sound waves, your amp and speaker. They would colour the sound far more than any cable making any supposed benefits redundant even with the most sophisticated equipment..

Your example of the overtones or higher harmonics of a note. Yes you can hear them it is those higher partials that dictate the timbre and tone quality of a sound. If you remove subtleties above or below certain inaudible frequencies you do not alter the timbre or tonal quality. What you are hearing is a product of all those higher harmonics within the audible range. The only higher or lower partials that effect the timbre are those that are of such a magnitude that they either cancel out or amplify weaker ones within the audible spectrum. The size of any such resonances in the signal passed through a cable are so small as to have no effect in that regard.

Well, if they used that same type of test with reference to overtones, how many notes do you think people would say they heard if you piped a guitar's open A string through their headphones?
This unquantifiable and of no relevance to the debate.

With everything we're learning about physics and biology every day, it seems the only constant thing we know is how little we really do know.
This is very true, but it does not exclude people from making ridiculous claims that are supposedly based in good science when in fact they are not. There is a lot of good science out there and none of it supports the claims made by these people.

Next time you are in a music store and one of the sales guys tries to tell you that his $100 cable out performs the $10 one, suggest you carry out a blind test on the spot. Then suggest you do the cable switching and if he can get a better than 60% success rate that you'll buy his cable and but him one as well. Believe me I've tried it. That cable will never come out of the packet. I've heard excuses ranging from "cables need to be broken in", down right lies, to "you obviously don't have the experience to hear the difference so there is no point", a joke considering my background but if I have the time I ask what their experience is. That always provides some fun listening.

The bottom line if you want to use a £100 cable thats fine it's not going to hurt, but don't suppose you are getting more sound for your money, your not. What you are getting is a well made cable that has had a lot of marketing money spent on it and inflated mark up prices that make it worthwhile for the shop to push them ahead of other perfectly good cables.

Personally as I make the guitars they plug into I tend to make the cables as well. Its not hard and I can make one that is as good as any "Monster cable at a tenth of the price.

All you need for a decent guitar cable is one that is well constructed, will last the rigors of the road and gets your signal from the guitar from the amp in the traditional fashion. There is too much else going on as far as physics and acoustics is concerned to even begin to worry about the effect it is having on your tone.

You millage shouldn't vary..;)
 
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