Guitar/bassists... check out this cheap easy upgrade...

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tubedude

tubedude

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I posted this in a few forums, so if you saw it on your net-capades already, please forgive. I think its worth having everyone know about though.

Today I had the honor and priveledge to be personally invited down to Wireworld Studios by Michael Wagener (Accept, Dokken, Ozzy, Metallica, Skid Row, JAnet Jackson, Alice Copper, Megadeth, Kings X, Testament... do I really need to go on?)
Michael and I sat around the whole day trying out a ton of different mics on a guitar cab and recording each one of them and comparing our results and what we liked. A shootout basically. We talked a lot and I got to pick his brain about a ton of stuff, and just watch the way he works. The guy is a studio/recording/mixing genius, and I mean that sincerely, its one of those "WOW" things to be sitting next to him and be treated like an equal, and it was an incredible experience for me. I brought a lot home with me to add to my own bag of tricks and I can honestly say I consider this guy a new friend.
Anyway... the bulk of our day was mics, guitar tones, and how he gets 'em. I was like a sponge the whole time.
At his place he has 2 different Engl amps, a Mesa Dual Rec, TWO (!) Randall RM4 module racks packed with different modules, a Randall RM100 packed with modules, a Randall RM20 with a Topboost module in it (catching a pattern here? he likes those Randalls) a Rivera, several others. Nice selection to say the least. The guy also played guitar for Accept in the early days, and has about 30 guitars there, and has recorded some of the best rock tones of all time back in the 80's and 90's, and is still doing it. What I'm leading up to, is that the dude knows guitars and amps. Well, we were sitting around talking, and he asked me if I had ever heard of or ever used the Redeemer.
"Nope"
He gets a little excited and digs out this little box with what appeared to be a guitar jack wired to a little box with a 9 volt battery plug hooked to it. (Check it out at www.creationaudiolabs.com) You basically cut your guitar jack out, and put this on in its place, and hook the two stray wires to where your jack originally was hooked into the guitar, and it completely unloads your guitar pickup. He went and pulled a guitar off the wall that had one in it with a push/pull bypass knob, and we went into the room and plugged it into the RM20b and fired it up. He had me play for a minute with the jack pulled out (bypassed) and then he pushed it in. The difference in clarity and realism was enough to take your head off. We had to back off the treble and presence because the sound went from average to this open, crystal clear sound like nothing you'd never really imagine. He said it loads the pickup at like 3,000,000 ohms (yes 3 million) or something to that effect, and shows the amp something like 31 ohms. Big difference in tone. And with the pushpull, it gives you tonal options that you could use sometimes, other times dont. Check it out they are like $100 and some change.

Another thing, while we were sitting there, I was playing though an $80 Monster guitar cable. He said "bypass it again, and check this out"
Walks out and comes back in with a red George L guitar cable ( www.georgelsstore.com ) I've heard a lot about these cables so I was interested. Most of the time, it takes either a really bad cable, or a really incredible cable (Zoella) to really notice the difference on most sources.
Anyway, he says "play for a minute." I did. We then switch from the Monster Cable (remember, these are $80 and supposedly top of the line cables) to the George L cable. The difference was immediate and very much noticable. The high end was clearer, the tone was more defined, it was very noticable. The difference in cost? The George L cable is about $30... a $50 difference... and smokes the Monster cable. It certainly doesnt seem like a very significant product. Its thin cable and almost seems fragile (its not though) and you actually make them yourself. You buy a small kit with a spool of wire and cable ends, you pull out how much wire you want, cut it, push it into the cable end, and then screw down a little screw into into the wire and the connections are made, and its done. Then you can just whip together any length cable you need whenever the need arises, in like 4 minutes. Perfect for patch cables. I'm sold and will be redoing all of my more important connections with this cable and making a couple of guitar cables as well.
If any of you guitar or studio geeks are interested in other stuff we did, just ask. It was an awesome day for me. Loved it.
Peace
Paul
 
ofcourse, what mic's in what combination? which speakers? room mic's. spill it, my friend. ;)
 
I have a cable kind of like that. It's really old. I thought it was a bill lawrence cable. It had brass ends with a set screw kind of thing. Actually, I have a Bill lawrence Acoustic sound hole pickup that has the same cable. It's really thin cable. I thought it was really similar to the grey patch cable that came with my '62 RI strat when i bought it. It had chromed ends.
 
Cool tips man thanks-- I'm in the middle of upgrading all of my cabling and was looking at Canare or Mogami cabling for instruments but will def check out the George L's. :)
 
tubedude said:
And with the pushpull, it gives you tonal options that you could use sometimes, other times dont. Check it out they are like $100 and some change.

Sounds like a basic buffer, they can even be built into guitar cable ends. Lots of schemos for stuff like this out there . . .
 
I have george L's all over my pedal board. I got them because the lengths were customizable. I heard that they won some sort of award for clarity but I didnt know they were that great! (I'm still using el cheapo cables running to and from the pedal board.)
 
Uladine said:
I have george L's all over my pedal board. I got them because the lengths were customizable. I heard that they won some sort of award for clarity but I didnt know they were that great! (I'm still using el cheapo cables running to and from the pedal board.)

FWIW, I am skeptical about cables (as long as they have good connections and decent shielding) making much if any difference. I have a raft of cables of many makes and models, and they all sound the same with my gear. Find me a "clarity" meter and show me the numbers and maybe I'll believe it.
 
tubedude said:
We then switch from the Monster Cable (remember, these are $80 and supposedly top of the line cables) to the George L cable. The difference was immediate and very much noticable. The high end was clearer, the tone was more defined, it was very noticable.

I don't know a lot about cables and haven't noticed much of difference between most mid quality cables, but tubedude's hands on experience stated above points to some evidence of there being a difference between cables. I've also had experience with bad sounding cables where they just seemed noisy compared to better quality cables, so I would imagine (without knowing much about the science behind cables), that the differences can be quite pronounced, although a clarity meter would be pretty handy. :D
 
Best I can say is do just like he did me. Get a 15 ft cable on loan or buy it, play through one for a few minutes, and then switch. 3 people in the studio when we did that, all 3 of us strtted shaking our heads and going "yep, yep, much clearer thats better"
The Redeemer would be noticable by anyone. It was enough to require chaning your tone controls some.

Someone asked about mics: we tried Royer 121, 122, 122v, Beyer M500, Sennhsier 409 gold and 609 Silver, Sm57, Mojave MA200, GT convertible, Shinybox 46mx, Fostex ribbon with a big number I cant rem, A reslo ribbon, Nady RSM2, a couple others I'm not thinking of.

My favorites were the 122v (nice) and the GT convertible beleieve it or not.
SM57 was the sore loser of all, next to the 609 and Beyer 500. ThenShinybox fared quite well, truthfully. It didnt suck.
 
But what pre(s)

did you test the mics through, and on what source(s)?
 
I would think the Monster GeorgeL difference could be captured in a clip.

Clip please... :)

tubedude said:
He gets a little excited and digs out this little box with what appeared to be a guitar jack wired to a little box with a 9 volt battery plug hooked to it. (Check it out at www.creationaudiolabs.com) You basically cut your guitar jack out, and put this on in its place, and hook the two stray wires to where your jack originally was hooked into the guitar, and it completely unloads your guitar pickup.
This sounds like like an Opamp buffer
 
Anything like the redeemer that doesn't require mods to my guitar?

I'm thinking not just because it loads up the pickups, but if there is another option i'd be much inclined to know.
 
[[Find me a "clarity" meter and show me the numbers and maybe I'll believe it.]]

Have to agree with GGunn, I've been fabricating cables for over 40 yrs., and it's the CONNECTion that counts. Just bought a box of cables from my grandson that was stored out in his leaky garage, for years. Cleaned them up, reused the same ends, after cleaning. They sound as good as the Monster Cables!

Believe what you want...the CONNECTion is only as good as the technician. :rolleyes:
 
Keiffer said:
I would think the Monster GeorgeL difference could be captured in a clip.

Clip please... :)


This sounds like like an Opamp buffer


The DI was from a band so we cant post the clips without permission. He asked that they not be posted. No clips ewrre made of the Redeemer comparisons.
 
HateMail said:
Anything like the redeemer that doesn't require mods to my guitar?

I'm thinking not just because it loads up the pickups, but if there is another option i'd be much inclined to know.

They are building a beltpack model right now, should be out in a few weeks. The idea is to get it as close to the pickups as possible. It'll be better inside the guitar.
I am going to buy one and build it into a small metal enclosure with a strap clip on it, and run a 6 inch piece of George L to it.
 
tubedude said:
They are building a beltpack model right now, should be out in a few weeks. The idea is to get it as close to the pickups as possible. It'll be better inside the guitar.

Why? The resistance, capacitance, and inductance values for even a pretty long length of cable are minuscule compared to that of the pickup and the input Z of the buffer.
 
Hmm, I was reading about the redeemer and saw this closing statement:

Creation Audio Labs highly recommends the use of GEORGE L’S high quality cable throughout the signal chain for the best in tone preservation

Perhaps they own stock in George L??
 
ggunn said:
Why? The resistance, capacitance, and inductance values for even a pretty long length of cable are minuscule compared to that of the pickup and the input Z of the buffer.

Even a short run of cable makes a big difference, especially some less than desirable ones. I dont think this thing is a buffer exactly. There are like 200 people making all these assumptions that have no idea what it is exactly (I dont, but I do know its not an opamp or a resistor or antyihg like that, its a new idea and technology if I understand correctly) Regardless, thats the way its supposed to be ( in close to the pickup) they say its better, and Michael Wagener loved it and has several of them... and who am I to argue with the guitar god? I liked what I briefl minute I heard of it, and everything on the site makes sense to me along with what Wagener told me, and he knew a lot about it. He's designing a box that has a similar item in it that will be used for studio routing and will be built buy these guys. They are near him in Nashville I think. Anyway, I think if anyone wants to try one, then try it. Its probably not what you expect. You can actually plug the guitar directly into a converter and get enough level to completly bypass all DI's and preamps. It'l lstill be a bit low but can be compensated for when kicking it back out to reamp later. Very clean.
 
tubedude said:
Even a short run of cable makes a big difference, especially some less than desirable ones.

Let's just say that I remain skeptical on that point. Show me the numbers.

I dont think this thing is a buffer exactly. There are like 200 people making all these assumptions that have no idea what it is exactly (I dont, but I do know its not an opamp or a resistor or antyihg like that, its a new idea and technology if I understand correctly) Regardless, thats the way its supposed to be ( in close to the pickup) they say its better, and Michael Wagener loved it and has several of them... and who am I to argue with the guitar god?

Being a guitar god doesn't automatically make one a genius (or even adept) at electronics or acoustics. Eric Johnson, for example, is a guitar god, and there are several technical points upon which we disagree. Of course, he's Eric, and he can configure his gear any way he wants and spend his substantial money however it blows his skirt up, but that doesn't make him correct in his assertions.
 
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