Guitar, Bass, Drum and Vocal Pop-punk band - Boring recordings...

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Dude, double tracking the exact same part hardly does anything other than enhance the stereo width of that guitar part; even a really really good guitar track would benefit from that sound.
 
The songs are all in Dminor ?

Hmmm, why is that?

Yes, that could be very boring!Tell them to buy a capo if they can't change the key!

Light and shade is important. By that I mean think about arrangements. When you have everything recorded try experiments where you drop out the guitar for half a verse, or drop out the bass for the bridge etc, experiment with a view to surprising the listener with something unexpected, so just when they think they know what's coming you do something else. can't do this in every song, but it's something to aim for. The song/groove should be intriguing to the listener & hold their attention, as someone suggested throw in a 'novelty' instrument or do something radical to the sound of the voice at one point.

Having said all that, if the song has a great tune/hook and it's well sung and performed it will not be boring! No amount of fiddling with the arrangement/instrumentation will turn a duffer in to a good track.
 
Double up

The Seifer said:
Dude, double tracking the exact same part hardly does anything other than enhance the stereo width of that guitar part; even a really really good guitar track would benefit from that sound.
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Yeh, this is a great technique and the simplest way to improve any recording from my limited experience. I do it all the time now, double up on all guitar parts and hard pan left and right really thickens the sound.
 
Seifer- DUDE, actually- double tracking the guitars averages (and in alot of cases, cancels out) the dynamics between the two takes. You get a big wide, sludgey take surrounding your song. Not to mention it sounds fake. Yeah, it's a great device if you have an average guitar player.

If you have a great take and a great sound and a great part, why do you need to add to that? Leave some room in your mix for other things like drums or vocals or bass guitar, you know, those other things.....
 
here is a novel idea...actually look at a song FROM the audience perspective. What songs do people generally like? Is it the song you came up with that has 3 key changes and works its way into 6 different styles of music? Unless you are a dream theatre fan (which believe me, your fans are not, unless they are musicians too)...they want something simple, and hooky.

The songs my band least likes to play any more, are the exact ones the audience won't let us NOT play. So we try to change subtle things to keep us interested...but really, who are you playing for? If it is you, hey work the song until mozart comes from his grave to personally thank you for your contribution to music...if its for the audience...they don't care that you stuck that flat 5th in there.

That said...everything in one key will make for a long album...I for one love it when I go into a studio and they critique my songs and help me make them better...but shame on you for not doing that in pre-production.
 
dgrady76 said:
Seifer- DUDE, actually- double tracking the guitars averages (and in alot of cases, cancels out) the dynamics between the two takes. You get a big wide, sludgey take surrounding your song. Not to mention it sounds fake. Yeah, it's a great device if you have an average guitar player.

If you have a great take and a great sound and a great part, why do you need to add to that? Leave some room in your mix for other things like drums or vocals or bass guitar, you know, those other things.....
Click to expand...

Yep, that's me, very average I'm afraid. So I'll keep doubling up and getting a full sound. There are many techniques and no absolute rights and wrongs as long as things sound good in the end.
 
He's sort of right, but it does depend on the context of the guitar part. I had a small little solo in one song that was going to be panned halfway to the left side, and it sounded alright by itself. When I doubled it and panned one 75% left and the other one 30% left however, it sounded a lot better and a lot more full. I bet nobody ever noticed what I did.
 
Yup, that's the point... People like that fat sound. Sound tends to get fatter and fatter. I doubt that a thin and silent sound will be anything that the punk rock audience will ever wanna hear. So if you wanna do punk rock, do it fat...

aXel
 
I have to jump in on the modern hi-gain Les Paul/new Marshall or Mesa sound being boring.

It just is. It's my opinion that with the older amps (i.e. no channel switching, no effects loops, no triple rectifier options, etc) you get ONE glorious sound. That's it, that's all it really does well, but it's a more glorious sound than all of the newer much more flexible amps can give you.

The rough edges are what makes rock music....well...rock. It's easy to lose that while double-tracking. With the right player and the right gear, though, it can be great.

But could you imagine 'Never Mind the Bollocks' with a JCM 2000 or a Triple Rectifier and a new Les Paul? Yecch. Too smooth and hi-fi. Is it punk you're after, or pop? Is it Sex Pistols/Ramones/Clash/Social Distortion or is it Blink 182?

Green Day and Blink 182's records are good because they're arranged well; the songs are hooky as hell and they drop stuff in and out to make it sound exciting. But sonically? Pretty close to 3 Doors Down.

Just my opinion, of course. If I was gonna play in a punk band, I'd find me an old early 80's JCM 800 (the last great Marshall) w/ no master volume and no channel switching. I'd get a 4X12 cabinet with Greenbacks in it, floor the amp and play a 70-ish Les Paul. Now THAT would be rawkin'.

Chris
 
Try a hamer p90 for that purpose...

Seriously: I own a jcm2000 and have ot say that I love it... But I simply don't use it the way most people do... But you're rite: a JCM800 may sound nicer... Thing is: most stuff will not suffer from a paula being played over a marshall (BTW: you don't need to have the gain set to 20), but from poor arrangement, boring songs, bad playing (and then the double tracking is killing the sound)... Too many people seem to think punk needs boring songs (which the never mind... definiterly is NOT)

aXel
 
Tons of great advice, but I think the best bet (and I do have an ear for Punk, I was raised on the stuff) is in a line above about duplicating the guitar and hard panning, duplicate everything and fractionally pan in the stereoscopic spread, a little small room reverb on the master bus and compress the output signal to gain clarity and transparency. Also, listen to the first couple Police albums, Regatta De Blanc and Outlandos D'Amour, they are probably the best example of a three piece that had thickness while still feeling sparce enough to provide a bit of loneliness. The quote above about Blink182 is dead on, I was offended by the new punk movement and guys like them until I paid attention, now I realise that the politics have left the music but production values are amazing. The Bad Religion reference above is also right on, they were tracking phenomenally rich albums when the rest of the punk world was still selling dirty, poorly recorded swill, but that's because they had a message that just needed to be heard with clarity...Post a link to where we can hear some of these "boring" recordings and then the advice can be directed a little better, it's no good for us to say "more cowbell" if there is no logical reason, stylistically, for a cowbell to be in the mix, or a Djembe for that matter...
Chris D'Asta CEO, Nanolabs Multimedia
www.nanolabsmultimedia.cjb.net
 
Like was said, the starting point has to be the great song/groove, if that is not there then no amount of gimicks and great recording technique is going to make it a winner (at least in the long term).

If production and sound were the main criteria for good music then nobody would anymore listen to anything from the 50s, 60s, 70s when recording techniques were not as advanced as they are today.

Example 'Go Now' by the Moody Blues. Listen to the recording and its crap, the mic is overloaded and even the untrained ear can hear the vocal distort - but is it a great pop track, a classic, yes damn right it is and people still listen to it.

The important thing is a great groove/feel and music which sticks in the mind, not recording perfection.

How can punk be boring? The main thing that music had going for it was energy and excitement!
 
Punk can indeed be boring, and that is one of the main reasons why it did not sell too good until the age of pop punk dropped in. (And believe me I love the old style punk...). Why are most punk songs sooo múch shorter than pop songs? Because a lot of them tend to be annoying when being too long.

My latest punk rock songs are less than 1 minute long, but that gives you the feeling of wanting to hear more instead of hoping for the song to end...

aXel

P.S.: can sex be boring? It shouldn't but sometimes (maybe too drunk or so) I heard of people (male as well as female) hoping for it to end... :D
 
you might want to put more layers for the guitars.

I advise you to check some songs out by Turbonegro, they put some guitar squeeks (and Nirvana) and fuzziness, it sounds cool, and isn't boring.
 
i forgot to tell you to check out Rudy + Blitz (the band doesn't exist anymore) they add some kick ass keyboards, moogs, etc. sounds that keep it interesting and different....

listening to alot of good music will have you adding the best bits and pieces of each band into yours, which is like the "hybrid sound of goodness". listen closely.
 
i think without a doubt, you should always double track guitars, even if it is the same part. gives the song a fuller sound and bigger guitars.
 
get2sammyb said:
Like I mentioned in the title of this post, we are a pretty simple laid out pop-punk band. As we only have one guitarist our recordings can sound a little boring. Are their any tips and tricks to make them more exciting?
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add 20 min solos all round
 
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