Guitar and music theory

[muttley600]

well shit ..... then it didn't really help did it?

He took the guards off thinking he was too good to need them. Unfortunately Elu don't stock replacement hands in their catologue..

As far as the theory argument goes it's dumb as you know. Every musician is different. Every musical situation is different. The only thing for certain is that you need your theory for composition. Just playing out you don't but as you get on you are going to frustrate the hell out of the more aware members of the band.

 

[Lt. Bob]

The only thing for certain is that you need your theory for composition. Just playing out you don't but as you get on you are going to frustrate the hell out of the more aware members of the band.

^^^^^ this ^^^^^

 

[Murdersgalore]

Amateurs get too carried away with the technical aspect of playing and composition and don't spend enough time just trying to write a good song.

Absolutely. I have dealt with this with a friend of mine. He has been playing for a while and in his own words "just seems to have hit a brick wall". For as much as he plays he should be better than he is IMO. But his over analysis of theory is what hampers him while most people would think it would be the other way around. Like Lt. Bob said, it's just a tool. I will go further in saying it's an advanced tool. I'm not saying that if you don't study theory you aren't a skilled player. I have found that over-emphasizing the importance of it too soon can ruin a guitarist. It's best left at the intermediate level to choose whether to put much stock in it or not. Beginners should be focused more on enjoying music and emulating it until they develop the techniques they need to accomplish that emulation and turn that emulation into something of it's own.

Ever start a new job and the person training you for that job tries to show you too much info in one go? It can be confusing and discouraging. I would say to anyone learning to play, let the desire to play develop how you choose to play. You don't need to learn every word in the English language to construct a coherent communication of thoughts just so long as the words you do use are spelled correctly and the grammar makes sense. I don't believe theory is all that important. I just happened to pick it up because it's what I needed to play the way I wanted. Why learn shit you don't need to know? I can't play slide worth a fuck, and it's because I never tried much because I hate the sound and it doesn't appeal to me. Just like sweeping arpeggios at 250bpm and economy picking and such might not interest someone like Greg because he doesn't need it to play what he plays and perhaps it's not a sound that appeals to him. We are still both proficiently skilled at what we CHOOSE to play. Choice is the operative word.

 

[grimtraveller]

The problem is less with theory and the knowing of it than it is with elitists and musicologists.
Pete Townshend once made a telling point when he said there was too much analysis in rock and roll. But that came about as a natural response to elitists telling anyone that would listen how simplistic and small minded rock was.
The truth is that theory in music and in particular applied to specific instruments has not developed in a vacuum.
Theory is born of practice.
People over the centuries found that certain things 'worked'. Certain combinations of sounds and notes seemed to go well and were sometimes composed of very similar elements. Solid theory developed from this. Theory should be ever evolving because every now and again, new relationships are discovered.
One of the problems with theory is theory itself, becoming a fixed, unalterable, rulebound straightjacket. There are those that wield their knowledge like a Sith with a lightsabre, ready to cut down ewoks, Jedis and stormtroopers at will. There are those who seem to be hamstrung and straightjacketed by musical theory instead of just using it as a liberating tool when necesary. Mind you, non theorists can be just the same. No offence but "Three chords and an attitude" can be just as elitist as the "theory is all" philosophy.
To a greater or lesser extent, virtually all musicians employ theory. Because it is born of practice. It should be liberating, something that's kind of unconscious except in those instances when a little more conscious application is needed. It's like putting up shelves or something. It just assimilates into one's being after a while. But there may be a time when, for whatever reason, you need to remember how to get straight, solid and level and there you go....
However you make your music, just enjoy it. Rest assured someone will hate it ! But someone will dig it too because people are strange..........

Theory is for chumps.

Nothing beats a good bit of chumpitaz !

 

[miroslav]

Absolutely. I have dealt with this with a friend of mine. He has been playing for a while and in his own words "just seems to have hit a brick wall". For as much as he plays he should be better than he is IMO. But his over analysis of theory is what hampers him while most people would think it would be the other way around. Like Lt. Bob said, it's just a tool. I will go further in saying it's an advanced tool. I'm not saying that if you don't study theory you aren't a skilled player. I have found that ever-emphasizing the importance of it too soon can ruin a guitarist. It's best left at the intermediate level to choose whether to put much stock in it or not. Beginners should be focused more on enjoying music and emulating it until the develop the techniques they need to accomplish that emulation and turn that emulation into something of it's own.

Yes.

If you don't find your tone and feel/style...the theory becomes an anchor....and sometimes you need to just put the theory away in order to find your tone and feel/style.

I was taking lessons way back from a really good Jazz guitar teacher. He was teaching at the college I was going to when I kinda' majored in music for a year or so (before dropping out altogether ), and we were doing all the Jazz theory stuff to the max.
Now, at the time...all I wanted to play was Blues & Rock, but he insisted that the Jazz and theory would be a good foundation. He was 100% right....except one thing...I got so bored/burned out with the Jazz and theory, that I just wanted to quit (similar thing with piano and Classical).
So instead of quitting playing...I stopped taking lessons in both...and then just played, whatever I wanted in any way I wanted, and that is what helped me find my own tone and feel/style way better than all the lessons and theory.

Sure, there are times when I have to stop and think about something from a theoretical point, rather than instantly knowing exactly what is what, but for Rock, Blues, Pop, Country...it's not very often that I have to really stop and think about theory.

 

[K Road]

It depends at what level you're playing. For Rock, Blues, Country, Folk and other basically diatonic genres its not really necessary, IMO. But once you start getting into jazz and tunes that modulate rapidly through different keys then it becomes essential. Depends what you want out of music, I guess. I hit the theory books (well jazz method books) for a couple of years - learning how chords are put together and the more common scales and their modes. Did it help my playing? In so far as I began soloing more north and south on the finger board as opposed to just east to west and break away from purely pentatonic and blues scales, I suppose it did. But since I'm more of a song-writer who happens to play guitar as opposed to a guitarist as such, then no I don't regard the time I spent learning theory as a deal breaker kind of thing as far as my song writing goes. It is interesting though and I do occasionally enjoy picking up a theory book and leafing through it - but I don't consciously apply it to my playing (as far as I am aware).

 

[CraigCyril]

Very good discussion on this post. I found it very interesting and relevant to topic. I love playing guitar and it’s an interesting post for guitar lovers. Thanks for sharing it.

 

[ibleedburgundy]

If learned properly, music theory only serves to give you more choices and options that you likely would not have thought of before. It doesn't limit you at all, and if it does, you're doing it wrong.

 

[Capt Hair]

I think music theory, in most cases, is just a tool better left to analyzing music. It can tell me why this certain progression sounds good and why the notes work together and it can put a name to it.

And of course you can go "backwards" in a sense and put together certain notes based off what is accepted as "working".

 

[muttley600]

I really thought we'd put this old thread and others like it to bed. Music theory is a tool to communicate with other musicians in a common language period. It is neither required or not required, it is what it is. WTF do you lot not get about it? Just let this thread die.

 

[legionserial]

I know a reasonable amount of music theory, and I never consciously apply any of it when I'm writing music. I write stuff I like the sound of, not stuff that looks good on paper. It really is as simple as that. You can apply all the maths and science in the world, but remember that most people don't know that stuff, and they just like what sounds good.