Guitar and music theory

  • Thread starter Thread starter GuitardedMark
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I don't know if this has been mentioned yet cuz I'm not reading all those novella posts, but a basic understanding of theory(and I mean very basic) is almost necessary in ANY form of music. if for no other reason than to be able to communicate with other musicians.

I write music with a few guys who know TONS of theory...except the other guitarist. it's always "play that one part again. you know, the one that goes bum-bum-chugga-bum." uhhhhh, sorry...that means nothing to me
 
theD1CKENS said:
I don't know if this has been mentioned yet cuz I'm not reading all those novella posts, but a basic understanding of theory(and I mean very basic) is almost necessary in ANY form of music. if for no other reason than to be able to communicate with other musicians.
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LOL... it's only the basis of the entire thread :p
 
I'm too A.D.D. to read...guess that's why I play music
 
WhiteStrat said:
.....Now he might switch to some funky mode that most of us wouldn't, but it sounds great. And he does it on the fly--just as quickly as I respond with a more predictable approach--because he KNOWS the stuff. Not because he's thinking about it at the moment.

Theory doesn't get in the way of playing, it enhances it.
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^^^^^^^^^^ That. Having a little theory embossed into your brain can give you more options, alternate paths up and down a fretboard, more insight on what might sound good in the context of your song, all kinds of benefits. You won't get 'stuck in a rut' so easily.
 
I'm kind of astounded how everyone lumps musicians into the "theory" and "non-theory" groups. What's the Replacements line? "In a black and white picture, there's a lotta grey funk." Personally, I started playing guitar using tabs to emulate my favorite bands, and eventually started to practice basic chops and scales, along with chord changes and what-have you. I'm only recently starting to take theory seriously, and it's like getting an instruction manual for pulling the sounds out of my head and making them real. It's not that I'm looking to be a super jazz guitarist or anything, my love is rock 'n roll. However, knowing off the top of my head what chords I can substitute in a giving progression gives me far greater flexibility to bring out the emotional nuances of what I'm trying to convey. It's not so much that theory complicates things for me (which it can, at times), but more along the lines that learning theory gives me more options when I'm considering a change in musical direction within a song. That said, NOTHING can make up for basic woodshedding. You have to learn the physical skills to the point where they're automatic before you can start applying theory effectively (especially in a jam/improv situation.). Time spent in both areas is time well spent, IMHO, and both should balance each other without one taking center stage. Hopefully, one day, I'll get there myself. :)
 
Every musician should learn basic theory and advance with their skills on their instruments.

This does not identify me, I'm a hack.
 
I think theory is like math - even more than music is essentially math, but theory is like math in this way:

when you were in grade school you were taught math - I personally hate the way they teach math - 30 freaking long division problems - who the hell has time for that? and 30 Algebra problems - please. Anyway - what I only came to realize later, is that, they are actually teaching math like that because they are trying to build up the neural pathways to reinforce abstract logical thought. If you don't repeat the process over and over it doesn't get ingrained.

People (myself included when I was younger) are like - when the hell am I going to use this in the real world? I am never going to have to solve for x over y divided by z - well there may be a rare few places you would use it - but in reality - forming the neural networks to reinforce that type of abstract thought is very useful in complex problem solving in real word situations that do not involve any math at all.

To me theory is like that - it trains your mind to have these understandings about the beautiful complex relationships in music. And while you might just decide to throw a mixolydian scale into your solo or whatever - the real benefit is in having your mind understand it and work that way. So when you are creating music, you can instantly envision multiple possible directions for your melody or whatever. It gets your mind to "think" with all these different tools.

I think that is why so many people also dislike theory and have a negative attitude about it - it seems like a bunch of work and pointless rules - like math homework...
 
I guess this is where all that algebra they forced on us starts come into play. :D
 
It can go either way, I have heard and played with great guitarist that knew theory or some who only played by ear. I have also encountered guitarist who were horribly derivative and pretty much sucked from both sides of the fence as well.
Having said that, one of the most talented musicians I know, couldn't tell you what a basic blues scale is but he plays the guitar like he stole it. Obviously this isn't the average case but it shows that lack of "theory" isn't always a handicap. If this guy is handicapped then the rest of us are about 90% retarded.
 
I totally agree that theory can not make you a better performer or player - I think it helps in the area of writing and composition. Performance and talent are a different animal all together.

You could be a legendary guitar player and not know the first thing about theory, you could know theory backwards and forwards and not be able to play an instrument.
 
actually playing and theory are tow different things. Theory is a tool just like a good skilsaw for a carpenter. Having a skilsaw doesn't make you a carpenter but if you are one, then it makes being a good one a bit easier.
 
Lt. Bob said:
actually playing and theory are tow different things. Theory is a tool just like a good skilsaw for a carpenter. Having a skilsaw doesn't make you a carpenter but if you are one, then it makes being a good one a bit easier.
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I knew a really good carpenter once, cut his hand off with a skilsaw...;)
 
I thought the saying thrown around earlier in this thread actually went, "Those who can't do, teach. Those who can't teach, teach gym".

Music theory confuses and furstrates me. I studied it in high school and college, but have failed to understand in any meaningful way how to integrate it with actually playing the guitar. I must have some left/right brain disconnection, because mathematical thinking is like the most foreign concept to me when actually playing. I can only rely on muscle memory and my ears.
 
heatmiser said:
I thought the saying thrown around earlier in this thread actually went, "Those who can't do, teach. Those who can't teach, teach gym".

Music theory confuses and furstrates me. I studied it in high school and college, but have failed to understand in any meaningful way how to integrate it with actually playing the guitar. I must have some left/right brain disconnection, because mathematical thinking is like the most foreign concept to me when actually playing. I can only rely on muscle memory and my ears.
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The person that taught me the most about it (and taught me kind of a 30,000ft view of it) said that it's really very easy but the teachers and the way they teach it makes it way overly complicated. I only have a general understanding of it, but it's enough to be able to figure out what different notes and scales will sound good with different chords - which most any player can do - but you can find interesting patterns that fit together with unique intersecting harmonies -

I would play him a song and tell him I was working out the chorus or whatever and he would grab a piece of paper and make a grid and start pulling out notes and be like this would fit into a Dm chord or a G- you can use any of these notes and it will sound good - it was pretty cool - and it showed me options that gave me different sounds, like if I had a three chord chorus, there are several 3 note harmonies I could use - some would match the root note of the chord, others bring in a 3rd or 5th - and you can mix them up and really fatten up the sound
 
Lt. Bob said:
actually playing and theory are tow different things. Theory is a tool just like a good skilsaw for a carpenter. Having a skilsaw doesn't make you a carpenter but if you are one, then it makes being a good one a bit easier.
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Having both your thumbs doesn't hurt either.

I used to know a former carpenter in CA that had his big toe transplanted to replace the thumb he took off with a Skilsaw.

10 years ago at Intel the head safety guy was a former ironworker that cut off half his hand cutting weedeater line with a table saw. Seriously. Oh, and he permanently disabled his father on a job too before that.

That's how they make safety guys.
 
arcadeko said:
The person that taught me the most about it (and taught me kind of a 30,000ft view of it) said that it's really very easy but the teachers and the way they teach it makes it way overly complicated. I only have a general understanding of it, but it's enough to be able to figure out what different notes and scales will sound good with different chords - which most any player can do - but you can find interesting patterns that fit together with unique intersecting harmonies -

I would play him a song and tell him I was working out the chorus or whatever and he would grab a piece of paper and make a grid and start pulling out notes and be like this would fit into a Dm chord or a G- you can use any of these notes and it will sound good - it was pretty cool - and it showed me options that gave me different sounds, like if I had a three chord chorus, there are several 3 note harmonies I could use - some would match the root note of the chord, others bring in a 3rd or 5th - and you can mix them up and really fatten up the sound
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That all sounds really cool (seriously), but doesn't it still come down to trial and error? My guess is that you can discover those same combinations by ear, maybe it is just a more efficient process if you have the theory down going into it?
 
heatmiser said:
That all sounds really cool (seriously), but doesn't it still come down to trial and error? My guess is that you can discover those same combinations by ear, maybe it is just a more efficient process if you have the theory down going into it?
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Well myself - I found things I would have never thought of - there were like 3 or 4 different note progressions that all fit very nicely into the chord progressions and I would have never thought of them without seeing them written down after being pulled out of the chords shared notes. I'm sure someone would be able to come up with the same thing without theory - but it was like - here are the three chords - make a grid - here are three scales that will harmonize with them - tried each one - they all sounded a little different and changed the flavor of the feeling a little - and i would have never thought to try those notes without theory.

I need to recreate the example - then it would make more sense... maybe I will pull out my notes and give it a try
 
arcadeko said:
The person that taught me the most about it (and taught me kind of a 30,000ft view of it) said that it's really very easy but the teachers and the way they teach it makes it way overly complicated.
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It IS easy and they DO make it seem hard.

Basically, if you know a regular major scale ..... you got it. Then you count those notes 1,2,3,4,5,6,7, & 8 and that's everything you need to know. Everything else is built off of that. Really, once you know that .... transposing becomes so easy because it doesn't matter what the note names are ..... you're looking at play the 1 and 4 and 6 or whatever.
If they would just teach that from the very beginning no one would have a problem because everyone can count to 8.
 
I - IV - V - I ftw!

man the forum changed my major chord progression to a minor! - i fixed it... making this entire line REDUNDANT
 
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