Outlaws
New member
Don't get a low watt amp. If your amps are making the sound that you want, only its too loud, then get an attenuator. Yes they alter the sound some, but not as much as completely changing your amp.
Don't get a low watt amp. If your amps are making the sound that you want, only its too loud, then get an attenuator. Yes they alter the sound some, but not as much as completely changing your amp.
Goldilox
New member
Whilst I agree there´s nothing like a real amp, and I´m not a fan of digital modellers I´ve had some reasonable results with solid-state modellers in a home studio environment.
I´ve got one of these which I´ve used for home recording and live through a PA cab as an alternative to carrying a spare amp and to my ears whilst it doesn´t sound as convincing as a real vavle amp it can sound better than some of the solid state amps I´ve known over the years.
I also have friends who swear by the Boss ´one trick´ modellers that replicate a single amp such as the Fender ´65 Deluxe Reverb. To the extent that some of them will use them on gigs where space is at a premium.
I´ve got one of these which I´ve used for home recording and live through a PA cab as an alternative to carrying a spare amp and to my ears whilst it doesn´t sound as convincing as a real vavle amp it can sound better than some of the solid state amps I´ve known over the years.
I also have friends who swear by the Boss ´one trick´ modellers that replicate a single amp such as the Fender ´65 Deluxe Reverb. To the extent that some of them will use them on gigs where space is at a premium.
darrin_h2000
Banned
Whilst I agree there´s nothing like a real amp, and I´m not a fan of digital modellers I´ve had some reasonable results with solid-state modellers in a home studio environment.
I´ve got one of these which I´ve used for home recording and live through a PA cab as an alternative to carrying a spare amp and to my ears whilst it doesn´t sound as convincing as a real vavle amp it can sound better than some of the solid state amps I´ve known over the years.
I also have friends who swear by the Boss ´one trick´ modellers that replicate a single amp such as the Fender ´65 Deluxe Reverb. To the extent that some of them will use them on gigs where space is at a premium.
Truth be told...that is a copy of the Tech21 GT2...decent modeler.
Goldilox
New member
Yeah I´d spotted that....although they have made a couple of little improvements - an xlr output and a ground lift.
theCKWilliams
New member
it's true, modelers are not as accurate a representation or near as realistic as micing your amps. I use ALL of the Amplitube modelers and an Ampeg modeler, as well. i'll post some samples, if you like, of stuff i've recorded with them so you can check out some examples.
i notice a LOT of PURISTS and NAY SAYERS on this board easily write off a lot of things that could be useful, depending on what YOU are trying to do, just because it's not the most ummmmmm, natural(?) or authentic(?) way of going about recording. just because something didn't work for someone else doesn't mean it won't suit what you're trying to accomplish. i record in my apartment. it's in a house that has been divided into 3 apartments. My neighbor is a school teacher and my upstairs neighbor trains dogs. needless to say, i can't make a lot of noise. I work all day and really the only time i have to write and record is late at night (usually between 9pm and 6am). since i don't like pissing off my neighbors (who are really nice people) and don;t like noise ordinance violation tickets (which can range from $200-$500) I'm forced to use modelers MOST of the time. i can say that, in comparison, i can not get the EXACT sound from a modeler that i can from my amps (mesa boogie rectifier/fender tweed/Laney Hardcore50) but, with enough dialing, i can get some VERY similar sounds and, in some cases, some sounds i would not be able to achieve with my amps.
the only thing that REALLY bothers me is the lack of feedback control with the modelers. i LOVE playing with feedback and other naturally occurring noises from electric guitars and amps. however, if you're looking for clean and basic distortion sounds, the modelers work just fine for me.
try them out yourself and THEN make a judgement call. don't let people tell you what is good for YOU and what is not.
if you're in Gaylord, KS @ 12:23a.m. you and the convenience store clerk are probably the only ones awake... take this from someone that grew up in Protection, Ks.
i notice a LOT of PURISTS and NAY SAYERS on this board easily write off a lot of things that could be useful, depending on what YOU are trying to do, just because it's not the most ummmmmm, natural(?) or authentic(?) way of going about recording. just because something didn't work for someone else doesn't mean it won't suit what you're trying to accomplish. i record in my apartment. it's in a house that has been divided into 3 apartments. My neighbor is a school teacher and my upstairs neighbor trains dogs. needless to say, i can't make a lot of noise. I work all day and really the only time i have to write and record is late at night (usually between 9pm and 6am). since i don't like pissing off my neighbors (who are really nice people) and don;t like noise ordinance violation tickets (which can range from $200-$500) I'm forced to use modelers MOST of the time. i can say that, in comparison, i can not get the EXACT sound from a modeler that i can from my amps (mesa boogie rectifier/fender tweed/Laney Hardcore50) but, with enough dialing, i can get some VERY similar sounds and, in some cases, some sounds i would not be able to achieve with my amps.
the only thing that REALLY bothers me is the lack of feedback control with the modelers. i LOVE playing with feedback and other naturally occurring noises from electric guitars and amps. however, if you're looking for clean and basic distortion sounds, the modelers work just fine for me.
try them out yourself and THEN make a judgement call. don't let people tell you what is good for YOU and what is not.
if you're in Gaylord, KS @ 12:23a.m. you and the convenience store clerk are probably the only ones awake... take this from someone that grew up in Protection, Ks.
Last edited:
theCKWilliams
New member
+DELETED+
please refer to last post on page 1.
please refer to last post on page 1.
FunkDaddy
New member
Though I don't think anything compares to mic'ing an amp, I use a few Amplitude modellers and they work great for demos. Re-amping on the fly can be the difference between a track that rocks and one you have to scrap.
B
Bux
New member
You might try looking at the Genesis3 from Digitech. I bought one on Ebay for 35$ and it has some amazing tones. This was a high dollar gadget when it came out. The unit has SP/DIF out so you can run digital right into your PC. You must have a SP/DIF input set up on your computer to recieve the signal. Anyway, the Genesis3 is a quality processor and very affordable. Cheers, Buck
ocnor
Lord Of The Thighs
Whilst I agree there´s nothing like a real amp, and I´m not a fan of digital modellers I´ve had some reasonable results with solid-state modellers in a home studio environment.
I´ve got one of these which I´ve used for home recording and live through a PA cab as an alternative to carrying a spare amp and to my ears whilst it doesn´t sound as convincing as a real vavle amp it can sound better than some of the solid state amps I´ve known over the years.
I've got one of those also. When running direct it sounds like any other distortion pedal and does not resemble the tone of an actual mic'd amp [tube or solid state] in any way.
Here's a picture of some technicians working on the crucial components that go into every amp modeler and distortion pedal on the market.
darrin_h2000
Banned
Isnt that by the turn off by the creek on the way to Stump Water KS...maybe you know my Cousi...err wife's brother
theCKWilliams
New member
see, haters everywhere.
i must reiterate, you're not going to produce commercial quality stuff with modelers but for a hobbyists, demos, small independent release, idea pad, rap beats, they're absolutely fantastic.
i've never found any bees in mine, though...
i must reiterate, you're not going to produce commercial quality stuff with modelers but for a hobbyists, demos, small independent release, idea pad, rap beats, they're absolutely fantastic.
i've never found any bees in mine, though...
theCKWilliams
New member
+Deleted by poster+
for tasteless content.
for tasteless content.
Last edited:
J
jeffree
New member
see, haters everywhere.
i must reiterate, you're not going to produce commercial quality stuff with modelers but for a hobbyists, demos, small independent release, idea pad, rap beats, they're absolutely fantastic.
i've never found any bees in mine, though...
Can't agree with the "haters" part, but I appreciate the gist of your previous post--that people's needs differ. An unsolicited suggestion: just tap into the large group of folks here, like you (and me), who record our music for limited or no commercial use. They're easy to spot if you hang around a bit, and they can often speak better to your specific needs.
Personally, I learn a lot from the more commercially minded folks here, too, especially those who are good at audience analysis. Still, I enjoy seeing all the more seasoned opinions even if there's no way for me to apply many of them (lack of money, space, time, etc.). Sometimes I'm able to find reasonable workarounds that at least head in the right direction.
In regards to modelers, the idea of recording my amp at home is a non-starter for me because of a situation like yours. I use my modeler happily and, with plenty of tweaking, can usually achieve what I need and enjoy the result. When I occasionally play in clubs or record at a full studio, I take my Musicman RD-112... and my J-Station. No 'either/or' for me, and I know I'm not alone here. Gotta do what we gotta do.
Last edited:
P
Paj
Well-known member
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Modelers/sims are more affordable, require less space, can be used in "noise free" environments, are plug-n-play (assuming you have your tones dialed in) - no mic/preamp setups.
That said, almost all of them have very “homogenized” tones, unless you pick their clean-amp models. It's just not possible for an algorithm to react/interact with your playing the way a tube amp does, which is what gives them that “homogenized” quality, and is most often easiest to hear in the upper mids-to-highs...especially with distorted/overdriven models/sims.
The only amp sim I've used more extensively and liked, was the analog Tech 21 SansAmp which can get some pretty nice tube-amp tones, and being all analog, it does have a decent amount of reaction/interaction with your playing...but still not quite like a guitar-to-tube-amp can.
I prefer to use real amps, but then, I have a studio with all the necessary equipment for that purpose.
But for different circumstances, a modeler/sim may be the logical/necessary choice, and some better ones can be dialed in for an “acceptable” tone…though if you have an ear for any critical guitar tones, you will never beat a real tube amp.
That said, almost all of them have very “homogenized” tones, unless you pick their clean-amp models. It's just not possible for an algorithm to react/interact with your playing the way a tube amp does, which is what gives them that “homogenized” quality, and is most often easiest to hear in the upper mids-to-highs...especially with distorted/overdriven models/sims.
The only amp sim I've used more extensively and liked, was the analog Tech 21 SansAmp which can get some pretty nice tube-amp tones, and being all analog, it does have a decent amount of reaction/interaction with your playing...but still not quite like a guitar-to-tube-amp can.
I prefer to use real amps, but then, I have a studio with all the necessary equipment for that purpose.
But for different circumstances, a modeler/sim may be the logical/necessary choice, and some better ones can be dialed in for an “acceptable” tone…though if you have an ear for any critical guitar tones, you will never beat a real tube amp.
darrin_h2000
Banned
see, haters everywhere.
i must reiterate, you're not going to produce commercial quality stuff with modelers but for a hobbyists, demos, small independent release, idea pad, rap beats, they're absolutely fantastic.
i've never found any bees in mine, though...
Well alot of good stuff has been done out there with modelers...this shouldnt be so much as how they compare with the real thing...because they dont...but to Joe Punchclock and his girlfriend who is buying your CD, it doesnt mean that much...the only people who will really know is you and a few people here...so using a modeler isnt a sin if it has the tone you are looking for.
I like the Digitech mentioned above...and I like the blend knob idea they had...just wish they had done it in a rack package...I hate a bunch of shit on my little bit of desk space I have.
Cyrokk
Farce of Nature
Agreed. I use the modeller into a miked tube amp, and double track it with the same modeller as a DI. They both complement each other nicely by compensating for frequencies its counterpart may not have.
bongolation
New member
Man, how many more thousand times does this subject have to come up before there's any new input? 
Noting that the OP is limited to analog (why?), I won't go into great detail about why the future for recording is software, not hardware, modeling other than to point out the obvious advantage that it is infinitely flexible after tracking and the programs can develop/upgrade just about in real-time.
I discussed this with some guys at Korg/Vox a while back and they said that the limiting factor in hardware modeling is computational resources (that's always going to be more plentiful in the DAW itself). In order to substantially improve a hardware modeler/MFX, they have to increase its basic internal computer hardware's resources to support more complex algorithms -- and that means pretty much a total re-engineering of the device, not just new firmware.
I have numerous modelers/MFXs here and I simply don't use them any more. Digital software is getting better by the second and has already surpassed any hardware modeler I know of.
Noting that the OP is limited to analog (why?), I won't go into great detail about why the future for recording is software, not hardware, modeling other than to point out the obvious advantage that it is infinitely flexible after tracking and the programs can develop/upgrade just about in real-time.
I discussed this with some guys at Korg/Vox a while back and they said that the limiting factor in hardware modeling is computational resources (that's always going to be more plentiful in the DAW itself). In order to substantially improve a hardware modeler/MFX, they have to increase its basic internal computer hardware's resources to support more complex algorithms -- and that means pretty much a total re-engineering of the device, not just new firmware.
I have numerous modelers/MFXs here and I simply don't use them any more. Digital software is getting better by the second and has already surpassed any hardware modeler I know of.
bongolation
New member
Actually, it's not that close and leaves out some crucial ingredients, such as the TLC2262 OpAmp used in the SansAmp. The *DI21 series are too inexpensive to be made with the higher-quality OpAmps. Both are pretty much nothing but glorified dirtboxes in any case.darrin_h2000 said:
While I agree with most people who *love* the BDI21, I find the GDI21 to be far too noisy to be of the slightest use for recording, plus it just sounds nasty to me except on the most conservative settings.
CoolCat
Well-known member
i feel bipolar on this subject....I like them both and hate them both for different reasons.
- tubes can be a pain in the ass to keep maintenance, replace $$$$$ too.
- pods can sound like a thin hollow ffuzzzzzzzz plastic shit toy, at times too, almost enough to toss it on a bad day when you just can't get a good tone from it. only plastic crap tones...it takes patience and work, imo.
+ tube amps can be as easy as plugging in a guitar, and a beautiful perfect tone is achieved, slap on a sm57 and you have a industry staple setup.
+ pods can be awesome for direct monitoring/home recording when the Engineer is also the artist, sitting in front of the monitors, mixing and playing and tracking.....reducing the room issues greatly. ergonomics and recording is Direct is great, because "what you hear is what you track."
- tubes can be a pain in the ass to keep maintenance, replace $$$$$ too.
- pods can sound like a thin hollow ffuzzzzzzzz plastic shit toy, at times too, almost enough to toss it on a bad day when you just can't get a good tone from it. only plastic crap tones...it takes patience and work, imo.
+ tube amps can be as easy as plugging in a guitar, and a beautiful perfect tone is achieved, slap on a sm57 and you have a industry staple setup.
+ pods can be awesome for direct monitoring/home recording when the Engineer is also the artist, sitting in front of the monitors, mixing and playing and tracking.....reducing the room issues greatly. ergonomics and recording is Direct is great, because "what you hear is what you track."