Group Envelope

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Fret

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Is it possible to use a single envelope on a grouping? More specifically I want to be able to visually automate my drum mix volume without having to set up individual envelopes for each track. I am using Sonar but it my work the same as previous versions.
 
A couple of ideas...

You can "group" the faders using Console View (right click on each fader and assign it to a group). This would allow you to use fader automation to accomplish what you want. I'm not sure if this same approach will work with volume envelopes. Interesting question, and I am going to try it tonight to see for myself.

Another way to do it is to simply assign all the drum tracks to a Aux Bux. Then I'm pretty sure you can just put a volume envelope on the Aux Bux track itself. This is probably the best approach, as then you could still use individual volume enveopes on each track to get the correct mix between each drum - and then use the Aux Bux envelope to sit the drums (as a kit) with the rest of the instruments.

Good luck and let me know how you make out.
 
I would definitely prefer to use the Envelope just to keep it visual as the project is still in progress and automation tends to get forgotten and you end up trying to figure out why your volume is doing such screwy things.

I have not worked with the auxs yet. That sounds like a good idea though. I'll see what I can figure out with it tonight as well.

Thanks for the input.
 
BTW, I should have asked if you are using CW PA9 or Sonar. I don't think the Aux Buses in CW PA9 are available in Track View or Audio View (only in Console View). As such, you may not be able to use envelopes on them in CW PA9.

The Aux Buses do appear in Sonar's Track View and you can use envelopes on them.

(Sorry, I just reread your original post. You are using Sonar, so this will work for you.)
 
There doesn't seem to be a way to copy and paste an envelope from one track to another-- is this indeed true?

The Aux Bus idea seems like a possible solution for my needs here; I'll try that out.
 
AlChuck - Below is from the Sonar Help file - apparently you can copy Track Envelopes but not Clip Envelopes. They both do the same thing - however Track Volume Envelopes are in absolute db's, whereas the Clip Volume Envelopes are relative to the root track volume and are expressed in db's of gain. What this means is that on a Clip Envelope, if you raise the volume of the track, the clip envelope will follow accordingly (+2 db of gain will still be +2 db of gain, i.e., 2 db's added to the root track db setting). The Track Envelope, on the other hand, will be set in absolute db's, so regardless of what the root track setting is, when you hit the evelope the volume will be changed to whatever the setting at the node is. (I didn't explain this all very well, but I hope you got the gist.)

From Sonar Help File:
You can copy and paste envelopes or parts of envelopes between tracks and clips. You can not, however, copy and paste a clip envelope without also copying and pasting the audio or MIDI data that is in that clip. If you paste a clip envelope into a track without the clip that it came from, the clip envelope becomes a track envelope.

To Copy an Envelope
In the Track view or the Clips pane, select the track or clip that has the envelope you want to copy. If you want to copy all the automation data in the track, select the whole track. If you want to select only a clip, but want to select any track envelopes in that track, click the dropdown arrow next to the Select tool , and make sure that the Select Track Envelopes With Selected Clips option has a checkmark next to it.
Press Ctrl+C or use the Edit-Copy command.
The Copy dialog box appears.
Choose Clip Automation and/or Track/Bus Automation.
Note: If the Track/Bus Automation field is greyed-out, you must re-select a part of the clip that contains either a node or a solid line (shape). A dotted line by itself is not an envelope and can not be copied.
Choose any other kinds of data you want to copy--if you only want to copy the automation data, choose only Track/Bus Automation and/or Clip Automation.
Click OK.
SONAR copies the data you selected to the clipboard.

To Paste an Envelope
Select the track(s) and location (Now Time) you want to paste the data to.
Press Ctrl+V or use the Edit-Paste command.
The Paste dialog box appears.
Choose a track and location to paste to, if you haven't already.
Click OK.
SONAR pastes the automation data and any other types of data you chose in the Copy dialog box into the track and location you selected.
 
Aux sends!?? You mean they aren't just for effects!? That is an excellent suggestion and works like a charm. Which would better to automate the send or return? Or does it matter. It would seem that if I automated both I could get a more dramatic change but using just the return seems to get what I need. Also it appears as though the changes to the group or individual faders is applied before.. Our I guess technically after the aux automation. I guess it would be better to say independent of the fader or group changes and the aux automation will still adjust the volume by an assigned percentage. Is this correct or am I even making since?
 
Fret - not sure what you're asking...

You actually have a choice as to whether the track material goes to the Bus before the Track faders or after the Track faders.

I'm not at home, so I don't remember the exact specifics, but on the Aux Bus somewhere there is a setting labeled either "pre" or "post". When you click on it, it will change - pre to post, or post to pre. This setting refers to the Track faders. The "pre" setting means the Bus is patched in before the Track faders. "Post" patches the Bus in after the Track faders.

So whether you want it before or after the faders is your choice. Just set it accordingly.

And while the Buses are very commonly used for FX, they can be used anytime you want to treat several tracks as a grouping. Glad it worked for you.
 
I think what I really want is for the group evelope to work on the group but the indidual faders to still be able to mix withing the group.

Also with the aux envelop should I automate the send or return or does it matter for a volume envelope?
 
If you want the track faders or track automation to still function, you should set the Aux Bus to Post (fader).

Then make sure that your individual track send settings are set to full (100%, 0 db, or whatever the highest setting is). This will send all of the track data (post fader) to the Aux Bus.

As for which setting to automate on the Aux Bux, I'm not too clear myself on the exact difference between the two (send and return). It probably would make more of a difference if you were actually patching in an effect (I would guess this determines how much of the signal is sent to the effect, and then how much is returned from the effect). You probably want to experiment a little here. My suggestion would be to set the send level relatively high and leave it fixed, and then put your envelope on the return to get the final level that you want. I imagine, though, you could do it either way and get somewhat similar results.
 
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